Retirement Years

Ed in China (1) Introduction

2012-05-11T15:26:16-06:00

ED HUGHES IN CHINA

This is the Saga of Son Ed's remarkable 18 month trip to China from March 1989 through September 1990 - the period of great unrest in that country.

Introduction

In 1988, son Edward Hughes, had not traveled abroad as Patsy and I had, with son David and Daughter Rebecca through our three year tour in Hawaii.

Ed, came along in 1961 while I was stationed at Fort Leavenworth, Kansas. Hardly an exiting place. He grew up, including going to college, entirely in 'dull' (to him) America.

For a combination of reasons he itched to do something exiting and foreign. So he accepted an offer from the ‘Princeton in Asia’ program to travel to China, and spend at least a year at the Dalian Foreign Trade school in Dalian, Liaoning Province, China teaching the students oral English.

He did not need to know Chinese, for he would be in an “English Language’ department, where his native speaking and pronunciation of English words would improve the Chinese handling of the language. This was early in the ‘opening up of China’ to America which Nixon had started as President. And the “Trade” school would produce younger people who would go into foreign trading companies, especially since the Chinese government, in 1984, made Dalian a ‘Special Economic Zone’ where foreign companies could set up. Dalian is the largest sea port in China.

Edward took to that idea. He had some interest in things oriental since his brother David has trained some on Tai Chi. So, being unmarried and with no obligations, he accepted the offer. He visited a number of Chinese restaurants in Colorado Springs asking questions, and even encountered one part of whose family were back in northern China – where Dalian, and the Provincial capital, Shenyang resides.

I took a separate interest in the Chinese location, for Dalian was original called “Port Arthur” (after a British officer when it was trying to colonize in the Far East.) But when the Russian Bolsheviks were taking over in 1917, the US Government sent a US Army Force, the 27^th Infantry Regiment, to help the ‘White Admiral’ Kolchak who was still loyal to the Czar. The Regiment thus was one of the very few American units who has directly fought the Russian Communist Army. The mission failed, but the Russians were impressed with the spirit of the American unit, liking them to Russian Wolfhounds. The name stuck, and ever since the 27^th Infantry has been called the ‘Wolfhounds – and its crest displays the head of one, with the motto ‘Nec Aspara Terrant’, a Russian Wolfhound called “Kolchak” after the Russian Admiral’s name, and the irreverent enlisted men said that the Latin motto means “Don’t forget the Dog Food.’

I commanded the 1^st Battalion, 27^th Infantry Wolfhounds in Vietnam in 1968. If I ever got to Dalian, China I wanted to see where my Regiment came ashore in 1918.

But back to Ed Hughes.

He absorbed as much as he could about China, even visiting Chinese Restaurants operated by native Chinese who had more recently come to America. In one case, detailed below, Ed's being in China helped a family whose son was trapped in China after his parents were declared persona non grata back in China while in the US for making comments critical of the Communist regime.

He got packed, and since I had brought him up learning about some of the earliest personal computers and modems – Radio Shacks – in 1978, he took a Toshiba laptop, proper software and a battery powered modem – on the long chance he might be able to connect up to the US somehow, some way. when there.

By this time I had a growing reputation in my ability to communicate globally by personal computer and even ordinary international telephone circuits. This was long before the Internet spread across the world. There was no such thing in China.

So I urged him to also take what I called his 'burglar tools' with which he could disassemble Chinese phone which would not have American style RJ11 ‘jacks.’ And sent him with alligator clips to make it possible for him to tap into telephone wires.

So Ed left for China February 28th 1989 – the very year and month when the uprising in Tiananmen Square erupted.

Now since I was accomplished in using, from my home in Colorado Springs, a number of Telecommunications messaging and 'conference services - including the Source, Compuserve, Prodigy, the early west coast 'Well' and east coast 'Metanet' I accessed those in order to ask many questions about China, any possible government or academic 'networks' Ed might be able to use.

The story continues from here. via a series of Articles named "Ed in China (1 etc)"

Ed in China (2) The Metanet Participants

2012-05-11T16:49:16-06:00

The First Metanet Participants

While I used other networks besides Metanet, having been on it for some time, and knew both those who had designed and operated it, I chose to start my questioning about what possible 'high end' networks might be already in place in China.

Since the entire Saga of Ed in China was so interesting on Metanet, the founders of Metanet, Frank Burns (sadly now deceased)and Lisa Carlson (now Lisa Kimball) archived many of the discussions, which are here reproduced.

No less interesting were those who joined in the conversations. This is a list of their names which pop up making comments in the thread of discussions. At least six of them are still on Metanet today, 2012, who were engaged in following the saga 22 years ago.

Frank Burns

Lisa Carlson

Dave Hughes

Gordon Cook

Nancy Stefanik

Skip Conover

Scott Burns

Joan Sweeny

Willard Uncapher

Jeffrey Shapard

Billye Lemon

Van Gui

Taylor Walsh

Margo Hablutzel

Bill Robinson

Sanyakher Amare

Michael Esserman

Norm Kurland

Matt Minahan

Harry Stevens

Doug Carmichael

Sue Anderson

The discussions may appear disjointed, there are gaps (which Ed himself may fill up since he, like me, tried to capture all the text that passed between my computer and Ed's, and then were copied where appropriate, to Metanet's conferencing thread, and some were just for and from Ed, me, his father, and his mother.

But if you read from end to end below, you will find, indeed, a unprecedented saga worth your while, combining very, very new technical forms of telecommunications, within an ancient civilization - China.

Today, May 2012, I have entered it as part of my Online (only) Autobiography which includes the lives to date of all three of my children, David, Rebecca, Edward and my - now deceased - wife Patsy.

My children already in their 40s and 50s' with spouses and children and grandchildren of their own will continue this Autobiography. In particular, not only will son Edward extend these remarks, his Chinese wife will add to them too.

Ed in China (3) The Early Metanet Discussions

2012-05-11T16:50:42-06:00

Metanet discussion

THE STORY VIA METANET

Now, as a Pioneer in turning personal computers and modem communications – via at first my own, and Colorado Springs very first Radio Shack computer Bulletin Board in 1979 into Electronic Democracy, and then via the first national computer conferencing system – the Source – in the early 1980s, and then being invited into the first iteration of a system called Metanet – from Meta System Design – run largely by Frank Burns and Lisa Carlson who ran a business teaching executives how to use computer conferencing as a progressive method of organizational leadership and management – found myself on many systems – and services.

I liked the way Metanet was designed – its fostering of genuine computer conferencing. And the fact that Lisa, a woman, moderated many a conference, gave the discussions a ‘civil discourse’ flavor, absent on many other, male, hacker dominated services. Especially the California based ‘Well”

So I chose to tell the story, as it unfolded, of Ed in China, on Metanet.

Below, over two years, I reposted information from Ed in China to and from me on the Metanet Service– including the violence of Tiananmen Square and more significantly, the reaction of the Chinese Communist hierarchy – as it reached right down to the Students at the Dalian school – affecting foreigners, including Edward Hughes. And users of the system – most of them well educated – commented and questioned in turn. Since all those reading the Metanet thread also were following Newspaper and Television News out of China, their comments reflected that very newsworthy immediacy. And frankly, many were worried about Ed’s safety, especially after foreigners fled the country, while he did not, in part because I was able to keep him informed, in China, from national press accounts in the US. As we were linked person to person.

This long and remarkable saga of ‘Ed in China’ as it was happening was archived by Lisa and Metanet, and put into Item 27 of the ‘Treasures Conference’ (noteworthy discussions over the years) by Gordon Cook, who found the whole saga, and my involvement facilitating Ed’s ability to communicate back to me by modem (Long before the Internet or other computer networks accessible to the public) exisited, remarkable.

Ed and Ha Ning Hughes in china 11/88 - 7/90

Item 27 Gordon Cook (cook) Oct 04, 2000 21:43

Item 19 11-NOV-88 0:11 Dave Hughes

Links to the Middle Kingdom?

Now that we have settled our electronic relations with Russia via telecom, Japan is linked, Europe is no problem, another vast area of the world deserves some attention.

One of my sons - the tall one with an excellent job doing celestial mechanics programming for Martin Marietta, but young enough to want to see the world, has accepted an offer from a Princeton UnInternational program to spend a year in China. The area he may go to is Dalien, which includes the old Port Arthur, on the Yellow Sea where there are several large universities and technological schools. He will help teach conversational and technical English, one of maybe 20 others - most graduate students.

As it so happens a friend of mine - telecommer Mason Rumney was there last summer and reports that there is a *tymnet* link of some type there.

So Ed - and I - are interested in somehow telecommunicating to/from China after he gets there. (MM still has to grant him the leave to do this, so it is not assured, but - sooner or later we just have to connect up the Middle Kingdom don't we?

My other, artist, son (David) has had a screen play translated into Chinese through the Chines Cultural ministry, with whom *he* telcommunicated by telex from his microcomputer.

So I guess the time has come for me to learn something about modern China - and the telcommunications possibilities there.

(Then all we will have to do is figure out how to link up China with Russia, via Mongolia by modem and we will sort have done our job girdling the globe, hey wot Ghenhis Khan?)

129 Discussion responses

19:1) Dave Hughes 11-NOV-88 0:12

So who knows anything about technological China?

19:2) Gordon Cook 11-NOV-88 9:34

Not I but I'll sure be interested in seeing the resources that you find.

How bout Orville Schell who has traveled extensively there and published a few recent accounts?? Is he in the Boston area? Joan? ANY ONE?

19:3) Donald L. (Skip) Conover 11-NOV-88 10:39

As always, Dave, you are leading a worthwhile charge, although I'm not particularly sanguine about the possibilities of connecting up conveniently with China within the next decade. There is, of course, public telex available, at central offices. These use telex machines which were popular in the USA in the 30's--40's at latest. Access to the tymnet link promises to be pretty inscrutable, although it wouldbe great to see your son crash the bureaucratic barrier over his (brrrr---cold!) year in the "Port Arthur" area. I, for one, welcome his (and your) pioneering efforts to break down the barriers. Mind you, there are frequently not barriers of legal regulation, but barriers of bureaucratic inertia, etc. etc--you know, the same ones which appear in the "Federal Triangle". Best regards, Skip

19:4) Dave Hughes 11-NOV-88 11:49

Well *one* thing we are already working on is to approach it from the Tymnet, rather than China, end. "Hey Tymnet - there are several billion Chinese just waiting to be hooked up by you. But really!

They don't exactly know how or why. So now why don't you give Ed Hughes access while he is there, so he can demonstrate constantly - after all he is going to carry a lap top computer there – the wonders of modern telecommunications. At your expense. And we promise he will only occasionally ask his mom over your lines to 'send socks' :-)"

19:5) Gordon Cook 11-NOV-88 18:52

What about any of the various packet net sales people to who you talked when in the process of hooking Metanet up frank and Lisa?

19:6) Scott Burns 11-NOV-88 19:16

I'd say the best bet, besides Tymnet, is Computer Science Corporation's or InfoNet (same?) services.

19:7) Gordon Cook 14-NOV-88 9:27

Yeah they are the same.

19:8) Dave Hughes 14-NOV-88 11:15

Last night my son Ed and I had fun listing what he might need to take high-tech style for a six months, or year stint. We added a firm in Boston which has an MSDOS word processor in Mandarin Chinese.

19:9) Joan L. Sweeney 14-NOV-88 19:18

Interesting Dave...how about passing on which Boston firm ... would like to know . Thanks

19:10) Gordon Cook 14-NOV-88 19:23

There was an article on the front page of the Sunady new york times about

the chinese teacher exchange.... a BIG program!

19:11) Willard Uncapher 14-NOV-88 22:51

I didn't think I should respond to Dave's inquiry about Annenberg and its students before he got here and made up his mind for himself. After all, I am doing my best to teach them them the skills and questions appropriate to the sorts of things they might do on the networks of the future. I'm sure they'll be changed for having met Dave, but then that's what he demanded of the students that took his Telecom course in Co.

Also, I'm a bit behind in the discussions having been out in San Francisco for awhile (had a nice chat with Cliff and Tex at the WELL).

But it does seem that some China info would be very timely. Here's a short late '87 history of the ChinaNet connections which might serve to provide a few mailing addresses, and a sense of the state of Sinic CMC:

The following is a letter from the TAMVM1 LISTSERV information network.

---------- A Cautionary Note --------------

Chinanet is a big group with a few hundred people on the list, and some people have to pay to receive mail. To control the amount of mail flow, we ask you to post only the info related to CHINANET that you would like to share with EVERYONE. Otherwise, do so by E-mail on a person-to-person basis.

********* NEVER REPLY to something posted on Chinanet.************

*To ask for help, send mail to zhou@astro.as.utexas.edu ;

*To express your personal opinion, do so in USENET newsgroup soc.culture.china which will be established soon. Consult dd1k+@andrew.cmu.edu for details

*To inform people of latest developements of Chinanet and related projects, post to Chinanet.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

NETWORK CONNECTIONS TO CHINA

I. Background

In early 1970's, the idea of establishing Chinese computer networks was proposed by Qian Xuesen. In 1978, during the National Science and Technology Conference, the National Science and Technology Plan called for building a preliminary nationwide computer network in 8 years (i.e. by 1985). However, no substantial progress was achieved until recent years.

In the community of Chinese students abroad, the beauty and potentiality of computer networks has long been aware of and appreciated by individuals.

The awareness on large scales has been brought about in the last few months.

The discussions on network connections to China went public after the appearance of an article by LI Zhenqin at Cornell University in the first issue of USTCAAA News, in which he explored the possibility of having China connected to BITNET, a worldwide research network. Several of us got excited about the idea and started a small discussion group called "NCC", aiming at obtaining the precise and detailed information of how to connect China with the outside world through network and eventually writing a proposal. It was at this time that we found that there already existed a proposal called "Chinanet-Bitnet", which I'll describe in a later section.

The news spread out among the Chinese students, and all were enthusiastic, many volunteered to help. In late August, three of us went to Texas A & M university to visit Dr. Laan and Dr. Kemper who are in charge of the Chinanet-Bitnet project to learn more about this project and to inform them the support of Chinese student community in the U.S.

They were delighted to see us, told us the history of the project, and even supplied us the proposal in its original form. Later on, a discussion list is set up to facilitate our communication and to inform interested parties of the latest developments. The Support also came from Chinese Americans and foreign professors. One American professor wrote to us saying that he would be willing to put in some funds to help a certain university in China connected to the network. Now, the Chinanet Discussion Listconsists of more than two hundred people from around the world (U.S., Canada, West Germany, United Kingdom, and so on), with Chinese as well as non-Chinese. All the people take a strong interest in the Chinanet project and engage in various activities to bring it about. Recently, we have learned two other projects that have already connected China with Western Europe, which will be described later.

(cont.)

19:12) Frank Burns 14-NOV-88 22:56

You are?

19:13) Dave Hughes 14-NOV-88 23:02

He'll finish the sentence when I get there tomorrow.

19:14) Willard Uncapher 14-NOV-88 23:35

II. The Chinanet-Bitnet Project

The CHINANET project was initiated by by Professor John Maier, who went China during 1984-85. In his trip, he visited many of the Chinese Universities, including Zhongshan, Qinghua, Beijing U., Beijing Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics (BIAA), Nanjing U., Wuhan U., Fudan, U. of Defense Technology, Hunan U., Shanghai Jiaotong U. ,Central China Engi. College, etc. After seeing the computing facilities, he found it feasible to develop networks.

The Chinese hosts welcomed the idea, but did not have first hand experiences with the network technology. After returning from China, Prof. Maier and his colleagues have written many proposals to Chinese Academy of Sciences, Ministry of Post and Telecommunications (MPT) and contacted IBM, EDUCOM, BITNET, NSF and the White House' Office of Science & Technology Assessment. Initially, U.S. officials discouraged developments of such computer networks between China and U.S., fearing that technological secret might be lost to China. Later they are gradually convinced that such network may be more beneficial to a strong tie between China and U.S. both scientifically and economically.

According to the CHINANET-BITNET proposal, formally proposed by the Institute for Pacific Asia at Texas A & M Univ., prepared by Dr. G.H. Kemper (Assistant Director of the Computing Services Center of Texas A&M) and Dr. Lane (Director of the Institute for Pacific Asia), the CHINANET project is divided into two phases:

Phase I involves the implementation of the communication link between Texas A & M University (TAMU) and Beijing Institute of Aeronautics and Aviation (BIAA) through a satellite channel. The use of the satellite channel is free during the development phase of the CHINANET-BITNET Project, owing to the support of the International Telecommunications Satellite Organization (INTELSAT) headquartered in Washington D.C. IBM has promised funds covering computer hardware for phase I, the rest of the funds are being sought from some other private companies (e.g. AT&T).

Phase II will begin after the TAMU-BIAA link is fully operational, which involves extending CHINANET to seventeen universities and research institutes. The following is the topology of the proposed CHINANET:

Beijin U ----- BIAA ------ Qinghua U ------ Jilin U

Inst. of Computing Tech., Academia Sinica(CAS/ICT)

USTC

Sichuan U----Wuhan U----Nanjing U---Shanghai Jiaotong U---Fudan U

| | |

Central China | Sun Yatsen U

Engr. College | |

| |

| Hunan U

Xian Jiaotong U |

National Defense U

The funds for phase two will probably be from IBM. Phase two is planned to be completed by June 1, 1988. The main concentration now is on the phase I Phase II has not been on agenda yet. The list of the institutions in Phase I is open to discussion. The present CHINANET-BITNET working group is as follows

John Maier, initiator and principle coordinator

Jaan Laane, director

George Kemper, assistant director in charge of technical details

Qian Shixiang, BIAA counterpart of Laane and Kemper

(cont... two more)

19:15) Willard Uncapher 14-NOV-88 23:47

III. China-Western Europe Connections

Currently in China there are two medium size computers connected to the international X25 network. One is a VAX 785 in the High Energy Physics Institute (IHEP) of Academia Sinica through the No. 710 Institute of the former 7th Mechinary Ministry, another one is a Siemens 7.760, with BS2000 operation system, in the Institute of Computer Applications (ICA) at Beijing Institute of Technology. ICA also belongs partially to National Machinary Commission. The later link was reported by the People's Daily (oversea's edition) on Oct. 9.

The VAX785 at IHEP links to Vienna, Austria via a special line with a speed of 1200 baud. It uses a software called Kermit which provides several functions such as the file transfer, the electronic mail, based on the virtual terminal capability provided by the link. The Simens 7.760 at ICA is connected to another Siemens at Univ. of Karlsruhe in West Germany via a modem in Rome Italy. The connecting line has a speed of 300 baud. Both Siemens computers are equipped with the CSNET/PMDF mail distribution system. It provides the electronic-mail service, file transfer and virtual terminal capability have not yet being implemented. This node (beijing) is fully integrated into the CSNET although the office status is not yet established.

To satisfy those who are curious, we provide a little background information on the link between the two Siemens computers. According to Prof. Zorn at the Univ. of Karlsruhe in West Germany, the project goes back to an idea of Prof. Wang Yunfeng from ICA at the Beijing Institute of Technology and himself some two years ago. Prof. Zorn has been running the German CSNET host for Germany in Karlsruhe since 1984 and has done quite a lot of work in the area of international network, including a CSNET/PMDF implementation for the SIEMENS/BS2000 operating system, was quite well equipped to try the connection. He has a lot of very good friends in China, at the ICA in Beijing, Tongji Univ. in Shanghai, and in Xian and a lot of other places, where SIEMENS hosts are installed (having friends helps, especially in China). The project was supported by the government in the German state "Baden- Wuerttemberg" as well as by the Chinese agencies involved, i.e. the National Machinery Commission, to which the ICA partially belongs. During his stay in Beijing in September, when the link was finally realized, he had the opportunity to speak to Minister ZOU Jia Hua from the machinery-commission and got the impression that the project had a very high priority, and that the minister was personally interested in it.

According to Prof Zorn, the next step will be hopefully the official admission of China to CSNET, and by this to all the existing networks.

There will by an important network shop in Princeton during Nov. 9-11, and people from Beijing will also participate. A networkshop is planned for next Spring in China to discuss the necessary steps for the admission.

19:16) Willard Uncapher 15-NOV-88 0:06

V. Other Developments

According to some private equiries made by Chao Jin at Cornell Univ., network connections between Hong Kong (who is a member of the international network community) and inner China is under development, no detailed info is available. Network technological research is also under way in China. A Chinese newspaper reported recently that Xian University has succeeded in building a wide area network (whatever that means). Small scale links within China also exists. For example, a computer link exists between Nanjing and Yancheng, two cities in Jiangsu province in China.

We hope that all the people on the Chinanet distribution list would put in efforts to publicize the Chinanet project, among our colleagues and friends, in- and out-side China. Note that, our final goal is not to have one or two machines connected to the international networks, but to have something on the scale of CHINANET-BITNET project, or even bigger.

For those eager-beavers who would like to use the CS node in Beijing, we are obliged to put in a cautionary note that TPQPlinkKM still in its early stage and not reliable. Also the 300 baud speed is fairly slow, heavy traffic would certainly cause a lot of trouble. Upgrading of the links is planned in the near future. We will remain in close contact with Dr. Zorn and other parties and keep all of us informed of the latest progress.

}i To help facilitate communications among various groups working on

network developments in China, we would like to collect names and

address's of contact persons in Chinese institutions, who have shown

strong interests in and supports for the CHINANET project, or who are

actually engaging in network developments. If you know of such persons,

please send their names and address's to: zhou@astro.as.texas.edu

The list will be available to people working on network developments

in China.

To better publicize CHINANET and related discussions, and to

help communications of Chinese students abroad on issues related to

China, we plan to setup a new newsgroup on USENET under "soc.culture.

china". Since we need more than 100 "yes" vote to get approval, we

hope all of you would vote for it. Details about the vote are going to

be posted soon. All discussions not directly related to CHINANET should

go to the newsgroup in the future.

Questions can be directed to zhou@astro.as.utexas.edu He will either answer directly or forward to relevant people.

Patt Haring {sun!hoptoad,cmcl2!phri}!dasys1!patth

Big Electric Cat Public Access Unix (212) 879-9031 - System Operator

19:17) Willard Uncapher 15-NOV-88 0:24

My poor cursor is fighting against the winds of line noise tonight. While these are more institutionally oriented connections, having been in China, I would figure that these are the sorts of connections and people from which more private initiatives and links will be made.

19:18) Dave Hughes 15-NOV-88 7:59

Wow! Thanks Willard. (and here all I was looking for is a little RJ-11 jack somewhere in Dalien so Ed could send for clean socks from his mother. :-)

19:19) Gordon Cook 15-NOV-88 10:30

Fascinating Willard, now if I could ony get with a bunch of folks and do russia Net!

19:20) Joan L. Sweeney 15-NOV-88 23:00

Gordon, I KNOW you could pull that off !

19:21) Gordon Cook 16-NOV-88 10:11

Thanks for the flattery. . .:->

19:22) Dave Hughes 27-NOV-88 15:24

So the doorbell rang late last night, and a postman special delivered a packet to my son Ed - who was just in his car to drive his girlfriend home. Right from Dalien, China. Containing a cover letter typed on an old typewriter with slightly fractured English expressing happiness that Ed wanted to accept their offer of a year in Dalien teaching conversational English. And enclosing a four page contractual agreement, signed at their end, also typed on an old-style typwriter, with one copy made by a process that we would recognize as 'late 60s' copying machines. In slightly better English, detailing their offer, and his obligations - teach 16 hours a week, be given an apartment and a car, return airline ticket (he pays to get there), be paid $200 a month (where the average wage is $20) (but that means he would be getting substantially less than 1/10th what he makes now in a high tech company - more like 1/15th), a month's 'vacation' at the end of his one year's obligation.

He stood there in the dining room, his girl friend there also, in their coats as he rapidly read aloud the text, and faced the reality of his decision to set aside his comfortable, well paid, young (25) bachelor life in the US for a year in a strange land, midst a sea of Chinese faces, in a socialist setting, in a technologically backward nation (where he works with the most technologcially advanced part of his own). He smiled the smile of a young man with the infinite possibilities of the future before him - cheerily left the missive covered with ancient chinese characters around the border of the rice-like paper with us to read, and drove off into the night.

19:23) Frank Burns 28-NOV-88 0:32

What great excitement. I hope he goes... and takes a computer with

v-e-r-y l-o-n-g r-a-n-g-e p-a-c-k-e-t r-a-d-i-o.

19:24) Dave Hughes 28-NOV-88 0:46

His comment on that subject was "With a car I can probably find the place with the Tymnet port to dial out from"

19:25) Gordon Cook 28-NOV-88 10:17

Beautiful inspiration Dave. . . . . .

19:26) Jeffrey Shapard 29-NOV-88 10:49

Whew! Great article, Willard Uncapher.

There is a feller down in Austin, Texas, named John S. Quarterman who is deep in the manuscript of an incredible piece of work called The Matrix, and he briefly describes the CHINANET plan you have outlined so thoroughly. I would like to show him your information, too, and he will probably contact you. I have his DASnet address stashed somewhere inconvenient, but in other formats it is... domain: jsq@longway.tic.com uucp: uunet!longway!jsq He lists a couple contact addresses for what you have described, in addition to the utexas contact:

Li Shao-Hong rzli%beijing%germany.csnet@relay.cs.net tel: 890581 636

tlx: 22558 NISTI CN

Werner Zorn

zorn%germany@relay.cs.net

tel: +49-721-608-3981

I find a listing for a DNIC 4600 for PKTELCOM, operated by the Beijing Telecom Adm, so they have their X.25 system registered as part of the international stream. According to good ol' jsq, though, China seems to have gotten their international connections in place before they have much going domestically.

--jefu@Tokyo

19:27) Billye Lemon 29-NOV-88 14:10

I hope he goes. There is *nothing* to compare with that kind of experience.

19:28) Gordon Cook 29-NOV-88 20:11

Well I just had 2 long phone conversations with quarterman today as he asked me to review parts of his book. I mentioned China Net. he replied that he believed it to be pretty much DEAD in the water. didn't go into details although he said the 300 baud link from beijung to germany was something entirely apart from chinanet.

19:29) Jeffrey Shapard 09-DEC-88 10:24

Dead in the water, eh? That is too bad. Bridges are _hard_ to buildand _harder_ to maintain. There is that old critical mass problem, on one end, and the problem of too much mass on the other. Maybe it will revive.

19:31) Dave Hughes 19-DEC-88 21:40

Ha! Even with 'telecom dead' China, there are still ways...In the letter my son sent back to China confirming arrangements and asking for a few important details (like who will pay the duty if asked for one, for his lap-top he brings in) he said they could *also* contact him by telex and gave my partner's (Larry Fox's) intl ITT (ascii) telex number.

Well guess what, here I dial up Tokyo to get a message from Alex in Moscow, then hung up and dialed into Chariot, and here is a telex from China, which came via ITT (800 # dial up ascii) to Larry's micro, which he quickly ported in e-mail to my son via Chariot through me!

(answer to one question - we (in China) will pay the customs duty, if any, if you use your lap top for teaching)

19:32) Gordon Cook 20-DEC-88 9:23

Now dave, I didn't say TELECOM dead in China.....I said that Quarterman told me that China NET was dead. That still leaves CSNET. And TELEX.

19:33) Dave Hughes 19-JAN-89 21:32

The deal is closed, the visa approved, the confirming Telex received via ascii and ITT from Dalien, and the airline ticket bought to Beijing (Only $475 from LA!). So son Ed will be disappearing into the maw of massive China the end of March, toting his lap top computer, his youth and optimism - shrugging off the angst this is causing the personnel system of Martin-Marietta over whether to approve this as a job-guaranteed-on -return sabbatical.

And though he will be there to help the Chinese students learn 'conversational' English, he will be so closely associated with the technological schools in the area that the door might just open via his contacts for me to trundle over there with a 286. With unix, uucp, usenet, and the ability to network with the rest of the world...

Table Tennis anyone?

19:34) Lisa Carlson 19-JAN-89 22:13

I'll really be looking forward to the reports! I've been reading Discos and Democracy by someone who went back to China after many years to see the changes ... It's fascinating!

19:35) Gordon Cook 20-JAN-89 10:44

FantastiC!

19:36) Dave Hughes 28-FEB-89 1:15

Well, Ed Hughes' great Journey to the Middle Kingdom has begun.

With a gleam in his eye, spring in his step, three 70 lb pieces of baggage, a laptop computer outfitted with everything possible he flew to L.A. yesterday, and at 8 AM tomorrow gets on Canada air, and in a 12 hour polar flight will arrive in Beijing day after tomorrow. Try to get through customs with Touchbase Modems, printer cables, short wave radios, Word Perfect 5.0 Spelling Checker and Thesaurus, travel to Dalien, China and fit his 6 foot 3 frame into the inscrutable land for one solid year.

But he has our telex number, fax number, and direct dial modem number (Hey dad, can my girl friend have a free account on CHariot so we can exchange e-mail?)

Love at 300 baud.

And a billion Chinese.

19:37) Frank Burns 28-FEB-89 2:41

Great. What an adventure!

19:38) Billye Lemon 28-FEB-89 22:44

And his first sign-on will be as exciting as his first step. ...

19:39) Gordon Cook 01-MAR-89 10:42

I was thinking last night Dave about whether you might be able to port here some of his letters home???

19:40) Dave Hughes 01-MAR-89 11:23

If they come electronically, yes. (I ain't gonna sit here and retype paper letters!).

Unlike some on this board ( :-) ) Ed will probably not be a lengthy 'reporter' of what he observes - at least not until near the end of his tour there, to help others. But we shall see.

My cousin who saw him off on the Canadian airlines plane in Los

Angeles yesterday morning called and reported all was well (including those three 70lb bags) but that the 'realtity' of this trip was beginning to show on his face (he who has never traveled outside the

US).

But he also had conspicuously marked his bags "PROFESSOR Hughes".

Which will give the Chinese bureacrats pause before they hassle him.

Smart kid that.

19:41) Van Gyi 01-MAR-89 12:51

I read this item 4 times today.It really made me very interested. It also helps me getting some ideas.

19:42) Joan L. Sweeney 01-MAR-89 13:10

Van Gyi, what ideas did it provoke for you ? we'd love to know !

19:43) Taylor Walsh 04-MAR-89 1:08

Just read this through in one fell swoop. Timeless stuff. Young Man and His Laptop in China. How come it feels like a journey from the 19th century? This reminds that there are so many wonderful stories about the connections between people arising from this technology.

And tonite on 20/20, a segment portrayed it all as just a way to do *work* away from the office: stockbroker up all day; economist checking the markets from his Aspen home; part-time horse breeder sending her documents in to the office from home/ranch.

Who is writing about the connections among *people* that are happening?

I'm straining to recall, and can't. Hmmm...

19:44) Dave Hughes 04-MAR-89 3:10

We are. Here. Where else does it need to be?

19:45) Margo Lynn Hablutzel 06-MAR-89 10:17

Yes, any conferencing (or BB) system is *the* way to get people together online on a social basis. But if you're looking for *writing* on the subject, face it -- we're all too busy interacting to discuss what we're doing! y:-)

19:46) Gordon Cook 06-MAR-89 14:44

To go back to my earlier question. Some letters surely will come 300baud??? Isn't that why he took alll the computer and telecom gear, well one reason why at least?

19:47) Dave Hughes 06-MAR-89 21:11

Yeah, and Houdini went into the great beyond leaving plans to 'medium back.' SO far no contact. No guarantees he *can* get back here.

Only one reason he took the computer. He is also going to carry it to class to call up via Word Perfect's Elec Dictionary and Thesarus words for the Chinese students, to make his own class notes, to keep sharp his programming skills, to keep records, to ... well all the things other people do with personal computers.

19:48) Dave Hughes 17-MAR-89 20:49

Wouldn't you know it! Instead of getting a paper letter, or an e-mail from son Ed after he arrives in China, he waits until he gets a telephone in his room and calls voice! 20 minutes

“Before I had to rush to the airport to catch my plane to Canada at 8:30 in the morning! (It was 11:30 at night next day in Dalien).”

Direct modem talk? Hardly. The first call came as an operator with a you-know-what accent calls and asks for me (lucky they didn't get an answering machine) and says I have a call from China. When Ed came on, very dimly, all I got to ask was "How you doing?" and in his upbeat voice answers "*Very* good" and the whole thing faded out. Had to hang up. Well at least I knew he wasn't in a cell in the Great Wall or anything. Then 10 minutes later the phone rang again, and though his voice kept breaking up, (he could hear me fine) we were able to converse.

First point. All was well, and the Chinese at the Liaoning Foreign Trade Institute were *very* interested in telecommunications. But he needed me to research links from the US more, cause its hard to get anything done from that end. And the phone connections - through operators - were so poor so far he couldn't get through by modem yet. He wanted to demonstrate to them.

Then some talk about his troubles running Word Perfect 4.2 on the single disk Toshiba 1000, getting up its dictionary, and the printer connection. Which we can fix. And on what a veerryy slow time schedule everyone there in China was.

And yes the food is ok, cafeteria quality, and they were trying to feed him too much (his mother worried about that - he is 6' 3" and eats plenty). And the weather is not as cold as he expected, more like San Francisco.

With the intermittent voice, we couldn't talk much more so finally hung up. So the culture shock is not as bad as I feared.

He is obviously having a great time. And knowing Ed, his talking so much about his computer and their reaction to it means he has made a big - and unexpected - hit with it. He is there to teach 'conversational English', not computer! But what is a high-tech Ada-Fortran celestial-mechanics computer programmer to do with all of his digital tools in the Middle Kingdom among the natives?

Hook em up to the rest of the world! Before he is done I'll bet he has a credit course in Electronic English going! Or C-Caucus.

Then, at the airport (I am writing this on the flight to Toronto. If I had an acoustic modem with me I would even post it via the MCI inflight phone. No modular jack! ) I made a hurried call to Mase Rumney, of Steamboat Springs, who has already been to Dalien, China to strike a joint venture business agreement last summer, and who will be going back there in late April.

Guess what? He will be there while I am in Sendai, Japan, and had been bugging me to "drop over to China" and see if I can help him dial out. Just a couple miles from where son Edward is.

Hmm, I just may do that.

Nothing like visiting your kids who have gone away to school, and can't seem to find the time to write home, even electronically.

19:49) Frank Burns 18-MAR-89 5:02

Oh that would be fantastic Dave. Go for it. I say go for it. Hell you're practically there once you reach japan anyway! (oh well, we know that's not exactly true... but sort of.) And the rest of us'll ride along electronically. I WANT YOU TO GO. I WANT YOU TO GO.

19:50) Dave Hughes 18-MAR-89 17:24

Thanks for the encouragement, Frank. But I am getting to dislike all this travelling by air more and more. Crowded seating, lousy service, erratic takeoffs and connections, high prices...etc. etc. If it wasn't for my lap-top portable, so I could write things such as the above enroute, I would go stark raving mad. If there was any assurance of smooth ice across the Bearing Straits, I would just mosy over to Sendia by my computer camper, and then to China, spend month in Outer Mongolia....

19:51) Gordon Cook 19-MAR-89 13:53

Bravo Dave!

19:52) Margo Lynn Hablutzel 20-MAR-89 13:14

Yes, Dave -- how many times do you get a chance like this? (I don't mean dropping in on a kid to see how they're doing -- I mean going to China!) Yes, airtravel is the pits (take it from someone with 100'sof 1,000's of free-travel miles!) but it beats the legendary "slow boat to China." And I can sleep in the semi-vertical, so I never fuss.

19:53) Dave Hughes 20-MAR-89 16:50

Oh I am *not* so sure it 'beats the slow boat to China'. The idea of lazing out on the deck of a slow boat to China, with a laptop computer on the table beside me, linked to everywhere by a packet radio satellite, is pretty tempting....

19:54) Margo Lynn Hablutzel 20-MAR-89 17:17

Sure..... Just think of the incredible descriptions and adventures you could pass along! Think of the stories you can tell at future f-t-fs! I'm waiting for someone to post from 35,000 due up.

19:55) Gordon Cook 20-MAR-89 18:49

.....or even for someone to post from a slow boat to china!

19:56) Joan L. Sweeney 20-MAR-89 23:59

Sounds like your son encountered the same lack of reliability to the Chinese phone system as I did three years ago Dave when I sat in a meeting in the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences and gave a shot at doing a demo of The MetaNet during the seminar I was part of delivering...tremendously frustrating and disappointing to not be able to get a clear and reliable signal ...and...who [at least not I ] knew from packet radio etc....the up side of it was that The MetaNet made the front page of the Beijing paper !

I'll sure follow Ed's exploits with interest .

19:57) Dave Hughes 21-MAR-89 8:38

Ha! I never thought he could direct dial out to the US from there over their phone system. But I am hoping we can find some in-country link through some packet switching. We know Tyment is in Beijing, but of course not on a 'dial-in' basis.

19:58) Gordon Cook 21-MAR-89 9:48

metanet in China??? Years ago??? I didn't know that. tell us more!

19:59) Joan L. Sweeney 21-MAR-89 23:07

The dialing out was to a Tymenet or Telenet node in Singapore... can't recall which it was right now...NOT a direct dial out Dave.

19:60) Dave Hughes 25-MAR-89 17:01

Ha! A letter on *paper* from China, from 'Prof. Xiao Ed' Yep. None other than son Ed. Xiao means 'young'. The kid who had dyslexia and hated to read or write - until I brought home my first computer lo, 12 years ago. Who now writes his old mom and dad a 6 page *literate* letter, our first 'glimpse' of his reactions to China. Excuse the fatherly interest in what one of his children is turning out to be when out - way out - in the real world. (My gawd. I would nothave *dreamed* of upping one day from a nice well paying job at 25 years old and saying 'Well, I think I'll go to China for a year and see what happens')

A few small excerpts

"My two days in Beijing, a very grey city...It took me a while to truley grasp what I was feeling...I ventured out to Tien An Men Square. This is where the Palace of the last Emperor of China is, and the Memorial Tomb of Mao Tse Ting (or Zhou Ze Tung)...I had a similar feeling when I was in Washington D.C. a couple of years ago...respect for a government in a powerful country."

"The palace was amazing and extremely large...one palace for one man covered two square miles"

"The place they have for me is comfortable, but compares nothing with American standards. I guess the best way to describe it is imagining going camping but the only difference is that you have abuilding instead of a tent...with the same insulation qualities of a tent."

"The people here have been very nice. I am the first foreign teacher that they have had here [at the Liaoning Foreign Trade School] so they have treated me a little like glass...I am still figuring out what eactly I am supposed to teach besides Oral English. They just put me in front of a group of students and said - Here, now teach..."

"I have only been through a few rough neighborhoods in the US, but the hardest in the US is the standard here...but the people just deal, as would anyone else."

"Hopefully I will be able to telecompute...right now it lookspositive...Most of the people, from principal to English teachers, seem to understadn the concept...I have received the comment from the teachers that maybe this is better for the Technology School, or that 'Chinese' would not understand this. But I reply that the Tech School may be interested but this can be a very powerful tool for people in Foreign Trade and that perhaps we can be the people who teach the first Chinese what telecomputing is all about. I get cautious agreement..."

The school has an [IBM clone] Fujitech. It is put deep in its own room and locked away."

"Although I am somewhat of a novelty here because I am not from China...they also are surprised at how much other knowledge I possess. I seem to have quickly, to my surprise, gained some peoples trust and confidence.."

"I was given one of the five telephones for the entire school...

I was told that my phone was going to be given direct dial to overseas privileges..."

"Oh, yeah, I have really enjoyed the Shortwave radio. Thanks a lot. It keeps me a little sane. Since I have been in China I have only talked to two Westerners, a lawyer from London and another teacher"

"The teacher would like to go to Japan or Taiwan to teach Englishthere. If you could make an inquiry on a Japanese BBS he would much appreciate it..."

"I may be interested in working for someone like Tymnet after my time at Liaoing...so if they are interested in Dalian and me this could be an exploratory period. (I have my dreams)"

"..enough for now from the Peoples Republic of China..."

"Ed"

. 19:61) Lisa Carlson 25-MAR-89 17:05

What an incredibly interesting experience! And I'm so glad we get to share it!

19:62) Willard Uncapher 25-MAR-89 18:15

Thanks for the sharing the letter from Prof. Xiao Ed, Dave. It'll be interesting to find out about what some of his students think can be done with a computer. The fact that the school computer is lockedaway will perhaps renew his sense of the value of a 'personal' computer. I remember when I was hitch hiking around Tibet that a number of Chinese there told me that the camera that I had was to them a livelihood: they would take pictures in the market place for a fee.

It'll also be interesting to follow up some of the friendships and influences he is now having. There is no easy way to predict what ideas he is illuminating in the minds around him, but it is certainly clear that the Chinese have someone much more special than an 'English teacher' with them right now.

19:63) Nancy Stefanik 25-MAR-89 22:07

Neat! What I think is cool is the telephone offer!!

19:64) Gordon Cook 27-MAR-89 9:36

What a "young" Ed! You sure did SOMETHING RIGHT Dave! i hope he can soon ascii out so we can follow his story more closely!

19:65) Dave Hughes 13-APR-89 17:03

Another vocie call, clear this time, from China. And Ed's room (midnite there, 10 AM here, yesterday).

(His call was to request a 46 Long Levi Jacket - he is too tall for local clothes makers!)

Come to find out he was accepted (to teach English) because of the *added* feature of his technical expertise! Beating out a bunch of plain old English teacher-capable people.

He said 'the cultural revolution really is still going on.' The students are so intimated by 'authority' they jsut don't want to speak up in class. Outside it they talk happily.

He still likes it.

He thinks he can hook up his laptop and modem to his room phone.

So we may be trying a direct computer to computer modem session soon.

And he is merrily using Word Perfect 42. on his Toshiba 1000 (one disk drive) to help in his work. (he had to drop back from 5.0 - its too much a hog in memory)

So he is settled in. And we have our 'China connection' about ready to try out.

19:66) Gordon Cook 13-APR-89 19:48

Walllll, i suspect I'm not the only one eagerly waiting!

19:67) Tom Strand 17-APR-89 20:07

I saw the item below on linking to China.

Count me among the curious..

I've got to figure out a way to get a professor at Fudan U. in Shanghai online this summer.

Tom

19:68) Dave Hughes 17-APR-89 20:16

You are in luck (maybe) Tom. I just got off the phone with a Japanese in the US who gave me the address and telex of an official of the China Telecommunication Ministry who has access to Telenet in Beijing. Try contacting him.

YI SHI JUN

PKTELECOM

BEIJING TELECOMMUNICATIONS ADMINISTRATION

11, XI Shanog An Street

BEIJING, CHINA

Telex 71622211

callback PKLDT CN

Accordiong to Mr Usami, if he does not know, `nobody else will!

19:69) Tom Strand 18-APR-89 10:25

Thanks, Dave...

I'll let folks know what happens

Tom

19:71) Dave Hughes 07-MAY-89 0:30

Another incredible letter from 'Xiao' Ed in China. I will skip over the hilarious part where he - 6' 3 and a half" - participated in a Teachers versus Students Basketball game. Most of the teachers simply stood around while he ran up and down the court, scoring while lots of students hit, elbowed, banged, hung off of him, using their soccer style more than basketball.

He would have to stare at the Referee (the phys-edteacher) before the Referee would shake his head 'yes' and finally blow a foul. They were down 32 to 42 at the half.

In the end the Teachers won, 74 to 62, and he had scored 64 of the Teachers points. Which, as he pointed out beat Michael Jordan's record in a Laker-Bull's game. Now the Foreign Trade Bureau of Liaoning Province would like him to play for *their* team. He observes that they are really playing for fun more than winning or developing skills; that they are better at football (soccer) but not much; and best at table tennis, where he feels anyone who plays him could 'wax him at any moment' but they are being too polite to him to do so.

I guess they are getting a lesson in American 'competitiveness.'

Some extracts below.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

"I am learning my way around the city [ Dalien ] of about 4 million. Mostly the very poor. The path from the bus stop to this school is very rough dirt path with hand built shacks where their plumbing is a groove dug into the ground going from inside the shack to the outside to the edge of the path. The smell can be somewhat brutal.

Walking at night there is no light for the path, which is about 1 kilometer long. You just hope for some moonlight and incident light from other factories. Then you feel your way amongst stewing chickens and a few barking dogs and the rotten small of trash and human waste (careful where you step.)

Along the main road they have lights of course. They are about a kilometer apart when they work.

Today is cleaning day. They have a few old women who will mop the floors and empty the trash from the bath rooms. If you are lucky the trash can you have is a cardboard box. Usually it is a dustpan that is propped up in the corner. You throw your trash in the corner, or wherever it lands is ok too. The bathrooms can be pretty rough also. Cleaning means rinsing with water; no soap, no disinfectant, nothing. So every bathroom I have been in has a very strong ammonia smell. Outhouses in the parks and national forests in America do not smell as bad.

....All the teachers are cleaning their offices, for there is once-a-semester cleaning...some people will come and inspect the cleaning...if the cleaning is not good enough thenpeople get punished.. which usually means severe criticism...which could mean never getting any further advancement in your career...

... there are many leaders for just about anything

...people just seem to get jerked around like a steel pin-ball until they settle into a little hole where no one will notice them... I guess that is why I like the young students so much.

They haven't been thrown to the wolves of daily life yet. When I talk to them they are very curious and more or less happy. Different from most adults I have met.

The students are interesting. They seem pretty spoiled and have little respect for any property, including their own...

Getting on the bus is a riot...no patience or attempt to wait in line...I have seen old women elbowed and old men just pushed away...People say that one should flow like a river around all the rocks...the Chinese seem to flow like a river of rocks around boulders.

I am trying to learn...the language, calligraphy and Wu Shu (martial arts). The first two are easy to find a teacher...But finding a good teacher of Wu Shu is very difficult.

---------------------

He says the students got permission to march in Dalien as part of the current student movement. And they did. But as he points out, we know more about what is going on than he does.

He then goes on to discuss his Telecommunications Trials.

He got a modem answer tone on both Chariot and TWICS (in Tokyo) but could not connect acoustically. Since a Petro-Chemical Company he has contacted is *very* interested intelecommunications, as well as the Dailen Computer Science ompany (a retailer across China) he is still trying to hard wire a solution. But every call is $3.86 a minute (about $232 an hour)(costs us about $50 an hour to call him). So tests are expensive.

But he still likes it, and is talking about staying if he can land a good technological position with a US company in-country.

Ah youth!

19:72) Dave Hughes 07-MAY-89 15:34

Are readers of the above getting garbage characters at the end of each word? I don't but I may have failed to 'scrub' the text before uploading to remove the high bits.

19:73) Scott Burns 07-MAY-89 18:09

Looks okay to me Dave, I'd think Caucus or Xenix would remove them on the way in, but will check for sure.

19:74) Gordon Cook 08-MAY-89 9:35

just great Dave, keep the inspiration flowing!

19:75) Dave Hughes 11-MAY-89 12:27

Ah. Young 'Xiao' Professor Ed is turning out to be a chip off the old Hughes telecom-block. He has landed the first order for a modem to be imported to a company in Dalien which sells imported computer stuff in China. Almost all Japanese stuff to date. This will be the first 'American' product (I think I will go US Robotics, though who knows where *they* get their modems manufactured). And if it works on their lines...(he even got them to pay for the phone call this am. *Thats* hustle for ya!)

And from all I can garner there is just virtually *no* modem telecom within or to/from that vast land. This is getting exiting.

19:76) Gordon Cook 11-MAY-89 19:05

The significant other of one of our user consultants does business in Beijing. He has communicated with her via telex and I think fax.

When I asked about modem he looked at me like i was nuts! keep us posted!

19:77) Dave Hughes 11-MAY-89 20:38

We (Larry Fox and I) are peering at the export license rules for China. Maybe just maybe there are some modems not requiring an export license. Fax and telex? Ugh.

19:78) Gordon Cook 12-MAY-89 10:12

Well of course UGH! These are SUPPOSEDLY knowledgable people who think that these are the ONLY feasible technologies to and from the middle kingdom!

19:79) Gordon Cook 18-MAY-89 20:02

What an incredible time to be in china!!!!!!!

how many people saw Nightline last night?

The leaders of the Chinese Communist party negotiating for their positions with the student demonstrators LIVE on Nationwide television!!!

Mind boggling!! This is the stuff of which revolutions are made!! What's Ed's typing speed dave? he could have the ability to produce an on the scene best selling book!

19:80) Lisa Carlson 18-MAY-89 20:22

I'm watching the CBS "48 Hours" live special from China right now...

Fascinating! Inspiring!

19:81) Lisa Carlson 18-MAY-89 20:33

One of the reporters on the CBS special just asked, "When do we stop calling this a demonstration and start calling it a revolution?"

Hmmmm.....

19:82) Dave Hughes 18-MAY-89 23:43

Ah, China is a *large* country - and up until the last few days news by media of the happenings in Beijiing was supressed. Ed said "You probably know more about it than I do. But the students at this school 'requested permission' to march, and did after it was granted." I have heard nothing since then.I'll hear more - and he *can* write (bless his soul, after learning on a wordprocessor). So we shall see.

19:83) Dave Hughes 19-MAY-89 7:15

Yes, 'Xiao' Edward is living in 'interesting times' inChina right now. I talked to him and he reports from Dalien as follows.

The portion of the Liaong Trade college with 'young' students is totally out of business. All young students are on strike. While the older vocational students are still going to class. He taught a group of them yesterday. But all his other classes have been cancelled. They are not opposed in any way by the government (or college administration). All life seems normal, except that school is shut down and there are student marches all the time.

He says 'the people' seem to support them fully, as does the school administration and faculty - but without showing it.

Very quiet. Just watching and talking.

It also appears to him that the government can do nothing about what is going on. That it is 'out of their control' so they are permitting everything without opposition. Even, in some ways

helping. Over 10,000 students have been gathering-marching in 'Stalin Square' in downtown Dalian. The students of his school have to walk a good 4 miles to get to downtown. So the school administration holds supper until they have time to get back.

They are 'incredibly' organized, even though communications seems so difficult. But news is beginning to get in. Everyone is now aware of the scope and importance of what is going on in Beijing. (He chuckled when I told him that while he, Ed, had been able to wander through the Forbidden City, Gorbachev had not been able to.) Chinese government-controlled television was not only showing what was going on, but it was clear those running the station were supporting the student movement. Over half a 20 minute English TV news broadcast was given over to covering Beijing events.

He is constantly asked "What he, an American, thinks about it." Only the students seem publically involved. He says if he tried to join a march, he would probably not be stopped, because the whole movement appears beyond the control of the government. But everything is quiet and, except for the strike and marches, normal.

Yesterday a group of busses passed, carrying uniformed 'marine' students (Dalien is the famous port Port Arthur port city). When the last bus passed, a student waved to him out the back window in a way that told him the student understood that he understood.

He will pass on the supportive (of the student strike for 'democracy') message Van Gyi, Burmese student living in the United States gave me via telecom to give to 'Xiao' Ed.

He is going downtown tomorrow.

This must be the politest revolution in history.

19:84) Scott Burns 19-MAY-89 8:24

I've heard on the news this morning that the Chinese government is going to start cracking down. They haven't threatened violence, but they say they do want to remove the students from the Peoples Square in Bejing (sp?). I'm interested in seeing how the police (some of whom were marching with the protestors in days past) will handle this.

We'll see.

19:85) Van Gyi 19-MAY-89 14:32

The situation in China is on the brink right now. Chinese people are demanding freedom of speech and writing and democracy. If the chinese leaders represent for the fellow citizen, they should allow it.

I always remember one chinese leader's words " Our government is like a fish that travels in the water".

My worry is also the crack down on the movement. But the government will play a beautiful trick. If they crack down the leaders from the world will blame on Chinese leaders. The Government might use the people from the intelligence service disguised as students and make or turn the demonstration into rioting and looting. And then the authorities will make reason for it and will crack down. The authorities will detain the student leaders for a long time.

Here are the facts supporting for Chinese movement for democracy:

_To organize the entire people to participate( Send the student representatives throughout the country to explain the people)

_To unite each other in the movement.

_To demand peacefully

_To avoid personal attack.

_To make the future planning

-To try the support from outside-world.(The Chinese community in

D.C should demonstrate in front of the Chinese Embassy.Chinese students in D.C should do something...)

_To explain the organizations of Chinese armed forces about the

movement.(The Chinese leaders will use them to crack down.

_To form all China Student Union with constituencies.

19:86) Lisa Carlson 19-MAY-89 21:34

Special Reports from CBS are now saying that there are people in their broadcast booth from the government saying that there will be a news blackout. They are broadcasting the hallway negotiations in which CBS is attempting to maintain its broadcast.

Marshal law has been imposed in parts of the capital. News media have been ordered not to leave or enter the city ...

Makes me value freedom of speech we have here even more ....

Live broadcasts from the square have been cut off ...

There have been some "fly bys" of helicopters over the square ... it's pretty scary ..

19:87) Van Gyi 19-MAY-89 21:58

I guess they will cut off all the connections with outside world and then they will crackdown.(We had the same thing in Burma.).If there ie drop of blood of the student in handling the student demonstration, things could confused.

It is very strange that 1989 is a bicentennial year of the FRENCH REVOLUTION.

The meeting of a farmer's son named Mao Tsetung and an educated Chou En Lai changed into Red Chinaand the chinese people got two bowls of rice s than one bowl of rice soup before. Edgar Snow introduced Red China and the culture revolution to the world. He died a few years ago. Edgar Snow, Mao Tsetung ,Chou En Lai who establish the Red China has now faced the great challenge from her people. In fact, they are hungry for something, not food.

19:88) Lisa Carlson 20-MAY-89 10:19

John and I were just talking last night about how this period of time is for the Communist world like the revolutionary period which produced many of our current democracies...

19:89) Dave Hughes 20-MAY-89 11:43

Well, it is stretching it a bit to think that the current events are aimed at anything resembling a really new order. It is interesting to see that the students keep invoking American images and sayings (Statue of Liberty float, 'by the people, of the people etc..' quotes in tv interviews, frequent references in interviews to 'as in the United States' ) At the same time 'overthrow' of the government is denied as an aim. It is widespread 'reform' that is being called for.

A lot of the problem seems to be economic too.

So let me ask a tough questions. Does anyone here really believe that if communist brand of socialism *really* was replaced by a representative, multi-party democracy form as we know it, that China’s immense problems would be on the way to solution? Population growth out of control, space, jobs, technology improving 'productivity' food production, education for a billion people...

What would happen, for example, to the 'one child' per family policy - rather harshly enforced by nosy old ladies in the urban areas, while less observed, but still influential in the rural areas? 'free' democratic India and Bangladesh is hardly a comfortable model.

Maybe the question is - can *any* form of government work in China?

19:90) Nancy Stefanik 20-MAY-89 18:17

Well, Dave, I don't know enough about China's problems to respond to your question, but do know that I wish more than anything today that I was born in China and was part of the peoples revolution. It is so exciting.

19:91) Lisa Carlson 20-MAY-89 18:29

You can fight for many of the same ideals right here (and I know you do, Nancy!). I keep thinking about how much freedom of speech and of the press means. The first thing a totalitarian government does is try to make a news blackout before they "crack down" ... There are some thingsyou just don't do while folks can "watch" ....

19:92) Frank Burns 20-MAY-89 18:44

Yet what's also "real" in this new, wonderful, wacky, complex world is that a country cannot _actually_ pull its shades down tight.

They can make it tough for the reporters and the networks... but the words and images WILL get out.

Truly exciting happenings in China. Sure good to be getting your son's reports, Dave.

19:93) Dave Hughes 20-MAY-89 19:35

You bet you can't stop the news from getting out - as CNN noted today (while running some fresh pictures) *everybody* has a videocam!

19:94) Van Gyi 20-MAY-89 21:41

A good question, Dave. A billion people-multi party system government in China. It depends on the thickness of communism foundation in China. In my opinion the source of the situation comes from the past.

Mao Tsetung and the communist partly provided the needy people with shelter Food, Clothing. The entire people welcomed them. And then the communists organized the people .(Sorry to use the word"brain washed)" .At that time, the worshipers of Mao Tsetung issued the "Red Book"_on the traffic light-post we could hear a kid reading Loudly the red book to hear the passerbys. On the plane the marching songs of the army broadcasted all the time.

Deng Xiaoping opened its door of China.He made reform on economic issue.

Deng Xiaoping and group laid lown the economic plan of reform but the lower chinese leaders are unable to walk on the path. Corruption have been growing, and the people have difficulties on food,shelter,and clothing. The Chinese people would like to say or write. But they are not allowed.

They begins to find freedom of speech and writing. Well, let's start your question. Multi-party system is so dangerous for China.(we haven't known who is the main philosopher in the movement, how much the military stand on the side of the people,is there any political rival group appeared in the movement). By seeing this situation, I myself ask China could be divided into 2.

The best for Chinese leaders are to reshuffle or resign , giving freedom of speech and writing, and always avoiding laying out the economic plan which hits the needs of BASIC people and to respect the wishes of the people.

Dave, Time will answer the truth on Chinese situation.(smile -releasing my tension)

19:95) Dave Hughes 20-MAY-89 23:30

It is clear - and good in-depth recent television coverage has confirmed - that there is Chinese life 'in the cities' and then peasant life. The rules of one won't work for the other.

19:96) Frank Burns 21-MAY-89 9:02

This morning's _Washington Post_ contains the headline: "Students Teach Army A Lesson From Mao" -- and the lead article begins: "The people outmaneuvered the People's Liberation Army and its generals today."

Fascinating, what is happening in China.

Something else that caught my eye: "A madcap band of between 300 and 400 motorcyclists raced about the city as a kind of reconnaissance force, warning citizens of the army's approach and passing messages back and forth among groups of citizens and students."

IN THE COMMUNICATIONS AGE, WHOEVER HAS THE BEST COMMUNICATIONS SYSTEM .. ...WINS !

19:97) Scott Burns 21-MAY-89 10:36

Current word this morning is that the government is going to attempt to move the army in at 4:00PM EST today (which is something like 5:00 in the morning there). The news says that the government has sent troops into town via the subways but that people are now massed outside the subway stations where the troops would exit and have the blocked underground. Better watch the news late this afternoon!

19:98) Dave Hughes 21-MAY-89 10:41

I think there is going to be bloodshed, and mass arrests. The hardliners have no choice now but to order the Army to use deadly force.

19:99) Gordon Cook 21-MAY-89 16:59

Don't you think a lot of it will depend on what troops they send in? Do Mongolians speak the same language? If I wanted to repress things i would be sure to try to find troops who couldn't comprehend what the crowd was saying.

dave you may well be right and probably it's inevitable that there will be some blood shed, but how effective are 30,000 troops gonna be against a million people?

The Times wrote today about the army trucks that were surrounded with the people jumping on to educate the soldiers. Stop, we want to talk to you for a few minutes. Talk.......talk.......... Oh you look tired and hungry........here's some coca cola, some bread, some rice......eat.......we support you.......now you must support us.

By this point some of the soldiers were crying and the truck turned around and drove off from whence it came.

19:100) Gordon Cook 21-MAY-89 17:03

I don't think the army has shown enough loyalty to the system to be counted on. Would you be inm a helluva predicament if you had to lead a battalion out there against your own people????

Now the army may yet let rivers of blood flow but I think it's touch and go and that the loyalty of the army is by no means assured.

19:101) Dave Hughes 21-MAY-89 17:20

It only takes one soldier and officer out of 1,000 who refuse with a machine gun...

19:102) Dave Hughes 21-MAY-89 18:45

*VERY* interesting set of facts were related by a China expert who recently returned. He points out that the Army has serious grievances itself with the regime. That the status of the Chinese military establishment has been so greatly reduced over thelast 10 'reformist' years that it is the laughingstock of the country. That service in it has been so demeaned that its ranks are largely filled by peasants with no better future to look forward to. And it was so denied funds that for large numbers there has been no pay at al - only a uniform, food, shelter and a job.

So the question of how it will behave is quite problematical.

19:103) Dave Hughes 21-MAY-89 18:49

But that leads to the irony Henry Kissinger pointed to, that this crises in fact has been brought about *because* the regime has implemented reforms - a most difficult things for any authoritarian regime.

And that old Deng, whom Mao purged three times, then was restored, has been a Greek tragic figure - as the most reformist of all the leaders, who now is being reviled by those whom he empowered by 'decentralizing' the economy, and inevitably requiring political loosening up too.

19:104) Dave Hughes 21-MAY-89 18:50

Finally, some experts are saying that the lesson the Soviets will get from this is that it is too *dangerous* to liberalize!

Gorbachev may be the worst hurt of all!!!!

19:105) Gordon Cook 21-MAY-89 19:16

On the last (104) I hope you are wrong. Certainly Gorby must get severe collywobbles when he looks at China now. That's for sure!

19:106) Dave Hughes 21-MAY-89 20:05

Gorby's 'conservatives' can just point to Beijing and say "See what will happen?"

(the other irony is that the 'students' are, by a large, the children of China's power elites)

19:107) Van Gyi 22-MAY-89 2:01

>I always remember a chinese leader words "The power comes from the gun. "They can substitute the generals who dare to shoot the demonstrators. Or the chinese intelligence will nab the high ranking officers who disobey the order to shoot.

One sound of gun fire and seeing blood is very trembling. If the army fire one gun fire in the air the crowd would be disperse.The people will destroy the government factories and party buildings.

The main thing is what the people from Beijing will do. The people from all over China are looking on the people of Beijing.The authorities could control Beijing, The other would be easy. The other question for us is "Are the people opening their individual strike camps thru out the country.

We haven't known yet whether the communist cadres resign the member of the party throughout the country.

Issuing the Martial Law and the cut-off of international communication organization is a bad sign. If the army stands on the ruling people, the chinese students 'movement will be crushed.

19:108) Van Gyi 22-MAY-89 2:30

Burmese government has a great deal of experience in handling such demonstration!

19:109) Dave Hughes 22-MAY-89 3:34

Talked again to Xiao Ed. (supper time in Dalian May 22d, day after purported ultimatum to students in Beijing). He said that to the surprise of everyone the students marched and protested again - two groups this time. (surprise because they thought that although martial law was imposed only in Beijing that students there would take the hint). But still being done very peacefully and nothing else but school is really being disrupted. And no sign of either other sectors of society protesting or of an increased military presence. He, Ed, had not been warned or told to do or not do anything, but he was being cautious nevertheless. (not so cautious he was staying home. He was on his way 'downtown' to Stalin Square area again. And keeping a journal of everything)

Information is very sparse and he said that the Chinese in his area are almost soley relying on Chinese English Voice of America. He asked that I get the word - as if it is necessary - to VOA that the Chinese *really* are depending on them now. Other news sources are very poor now. One teacher told him that a government radio announcers voice reading the obligatory things he had to say was obviously very depressed, doing his announcing job spiritlessly his voice so low it was hard to hear him. (body language?)

I was able to inform him - and he will inform some of his Chinese faculty at the school - of the way US news is reporting events in Beijing. They had two disturbing rumors - one that a student had died from the hunger strike and that one had committed suicide. I told him that several news reports said there had been no confirmation of anyone dying from the hunger strike - in fact that the students themselves felt the hunger phase was no longer necessary, that they were waiting quietly for the government to make the next move. So he learned some things from me of events in Beijing from US news sources (that are doing a remarkable job even through the restrictions).

Ed asked me what a 'Red Leader' had meant before the cultural revolution. That the president of the school had been one and gotten into trouble from it then. So was very quiet now.I told him I didn't know.

Wondering whether all we said was being monitored, we rung off. He said he would call if anything dramatic changed. The same eerie 'wait and see' seems to be going on in Dalian just as it is elsewhere.

19:110) Frank Burns 22-MAY-89 4:08

Sure is good to have your report here from Ed, Dave. I'm reading itafter having just re-read Shumpei's thoughts in item 182. I keep thinking about _how_ the information technologies have changed the rules of the game of revolution. There were hints of these changes in the way that the "Red Leaders" in the "cultural revolution" saw their role... but this current drama in China is giving us "external observers" a much more direct role in shaping the events... to the extent that Heisenberg could not have foreseen. The role of the "observer" *is* a factor in the equation of social change and global information technologies mean that "we observers" are as accountable for the results as are, in this case, the students in Beijing.

What does "martial law" mean in the age of global communications?

Are Ed Hughes, tired VOA readers, and CNN reporters the "real" leaders in this new revolution?

19:111) Gordon Cook 22-MAY-89 9:21

The news this morning is that 100 top military leaders have sent apetition to the "givernment" saying that they will never kill their own people!

If the military can't/won't act, the government is powerless!

19:112) Scott Burns 22-MAY-89 10:49

Wow, I hope that isn't just a rumor. That's great!

19:113) Dave Hughes 22-MAY-89 11:31

Historically we know that the advent of public (press) photography caused a tempering of conspicuous display of personal wealth and power in the latter part of the last century. I haven't forgotten that. Today's counterpart has been the eye of global television being able to record every public beating. Of course that has simply driven some things out of sight. *But* global visual communications sure has inhibited the naked exercise of power, particularly police and military, when compared with the past.

Now *personal* telecommunications (not just press), and this kind of individual reporting, not just news agencies, in words that can convey things pictures can't, may be taking it a big step further.

I only wish son Ed had a packet radio with the range to reach here, instead of our relying - voice or data - on government controlled phones...

Maybe next revolution. But here is an important fact. It is not just getting information *out* but our ability to get information *in* that is different, and quite beyond broadcast media that is being watched, jammed, or ordered off the air in turbulent areas.

In many ways, my ability to talk to Ed voice with 1+ direct dialing (not through an operator) right in his room, has permitted *me* to be the reporter to him and his Chinese associates who - as he said - know less of what is going on that some of us do, especially our interpretation, informed in part by the Chinese and foreign policy experts who are speaking out in the US on tv, radio, and papers.

My 'advice' both as a concerned father for his safety and for the fragility of the so far peaceful changes taking place, has been greatly heightened by what I know that I have gotten from our own press - originating right in the Beijing square.

A total feedback loop!

Now if we just could sneak in a packet radio to the student leaders in the square....

19:114) Dave Hughes 22-MAY-89 11:50

In their way, the Chinese have always been leaders on the face of the globe. The profound image of themselves as a race has underlain much of their behavior. Experts yesterday pointed out that (1) this whole movement can also be interpreted as an expression of pride in themselves as Chinese - that they feel they are not being permitted (seeing the success of the other eastern countries - Korea, Japan) to 'be all they can be.'

Gary Utley a weekend anchor on a network news hour did an interesting personal 'aside' at the end of his reporting. He said when he was in rural China a few years ago a peasant farmer, when speaking of his reaction to the economic reforms said they were needed because "If we Chinese are as smart as we say we are, why arn't things better?"

So in the land where Mao brought a new meaning to the idea of revolution - the wedding of political system to arms (yes Van Gyi, he said "Poltical power grows out of the barrel of a gun") just maybethe Chinese people - led by the students (few of whom have ever visited or studied *in* the west) are going beyond that vision.

The army's message to the government may be an expression of an understanding of the relation of civil to military that is really the 'military ethic' of the future even in societies where governments are backed by military force. (look at Noreiga, and remember the Phillipines). Which may foreshadow the decline of national Tyranny which have always relied on blind military obedience as much as anything.

Once again, China may be teaching us all a lesson which goes far beyond economics or marxist theory. Rooted in their deep sense of themselves, the Mandate of Heaven, and the location of the Middle Kingdom.

19:115) Van Gyi 22-MAY-89 15:17

I was very surprised there is no announcement made by authorities after issuing marshall law. The students and the people are the strength.This strength is powerful. If this strength is not utilized very well, the dangerous result could occur.

My wish is to get a "leader" who stands on the side of the people. There is some chance that a "hero" from the military could appear. At present there is no leader on behalf of the demonstrators.I don't trust the people's army. The pullback of the army from Beijing's suburbs don't mean that the army feel sympathy on the people.

One thing I worry is how much of food is stocked in Beijing. Without food the people could not make further movement. A great chinese philosopher said ;

The government is like a boat on the water. The water represents the water.The boat can turnover the wave of water.

Mao Tsetung added a little bit;

The government is like a fish. It travels in the water.

The water represents the people.

I think,after this chinese revolution,a new kind of philosophy will beheard .I am very eager to hear it.

19:116) Dave Hughes 22-MAY-89 16:33

Beware of singular leaders emerging in a time of crises.

19:117) Margo Lynn Hablutzel 22-MAY-89 20:33

Could Xiao Ed hook into the international ham radio network??? I am fascinated at the impotence of the government. It gets more harsh and more strict, but the students persevere. I read about (I do not get cable) CNN's showing of the negotiations as all AV news was banned. Did the leaders not realize that they were being beamed worldwide? Or how does it fit into their plan?

Although I cannot see Chiuna making a great leap into total democracy as a result of this, it clearly will not return to communism as it was in the past. Too many have sipped the wine. But I would like to wait and then compare this with China's last revolution, when all the shouting is done and the dust has settled.

19:118) Bill Robinson 22-MAY-89 20:36

May we live in interesting times, indeed!!

19:119) Van Gyi 23-MAY-89 0:10

If the benefit of the country and the benefit of the communist party are compared in a time,which is the first priority to be chosen.

The above statement is very very important for the chinese leaders.

They will have to choose only one.

Yes, Dave...In the period of revolution, the leaders will appear. Without leaders.> In Burma,"the Burmese Way to Socialism" and the philosophy of correlation of human and human's evironments were introduced to the people by the military govt.(Revolutionary Council).There was only one party, Burma Socialist Programme Party. From 1962 to now, everything is red tape, food shortage is in red tape,food shortages for many years,lacking the country, large corruption and lacking of freedom of speech andwriting and losing human rights and bullying on the people have occurred.

Burmese students have been campaigning since 1962.Thousand of students died and some have been going to underground. Burma is a small country and lacking good communication system ,so the world didn't know what they should know.

I do trust the chinese people also have painful sufferrings.

We,Burmese wish the chinese people are never shot by its army like the Burmese people being shot by its army.

19:120) Dave Hughes 23-MAY-89 0:11

It seems confirmed that the 100 top military leaders did in fact write to the government and party leadership. CNN quoted the main points - which include (1)the Army is a people's army andbelongs to the people (2)it should not be used against the Chinese people and (3) it *will* not shoot the people.

So they tossed the matter back into the lap of the politicians. And to make matters even more interesting some of the student leadership wrote a letter also asking what is it going to take to end this stalemate?

May end, not with a bang, but a whimper.

19:121) Dave Hughes 23-MAY-89 0:14

Well, Van Gyi, you and President Bush agree on *that* point. For I heard him say yesterday that he hoped the matter would *not* end the way it did in Burma! (the violence by government)

19:122) Dave Hughes 24-MAY-89 8:40

I'm sure you have all read by now that Stanford U centered Chinese students in the US are sending 'fax news' to China to bypass censored news, and in turn are linked in the US over a computer conferencing network they have set up some time ago called 'Social Culture China' which they say links 30,000 Chinese students in the US with each other.

Well, I spotted a uucp announcement for a fall Computer Conference inChina, with a US point of contact in California - Zhihong Zhang, ande-mailed him to see if he knew of general telecom links to China.

His answer is typical hacker-student-interesting.

------

Subject: HPDesk

Dave,

Did you get my reply? Do you know what's HP Desk?

My girl friend works for HP China. She can send mail to US thru HPDesk.

I am wondering if there is a gateway between HPDesk and UUCP or

BITNET so I can send mail to her.

Zhang

-----

So maybe we will find a pathway into where Ed is via the girlfriend route. Good as any I guess.

(I have asked Netnews Colorado if they know the answer. Lots of HP sites in uucp)

19:123) Gordon Cook 24-MAY-89 9:48

That's neat Dave.....keep working on it.

Did everyone hear? Satellite transmissions having been started from Beijing have again, this morning been stopped.

19:124) Van Gyi 24-MAY-89 11:21

No, Gordon.It is strange and it is too bad for us who want to watch the chinese situation on T.V.

I think the administrative machinery of China is in good shape.The order of martial law is issued by Li Peng but Deng Xiaoping seemed to agree. However,in Communist and socialist countries there is too much centralization, and I think Zao Ziyang and Li Peng might ask approval from Deng.

19:125) Dave Hughes 26-MAY-89 12:31

As of May 25th, Ed reports things are still quiet in Dalian. There are now great spreads of posters everywhere downtown but less marching.

He did not know - and doubts that many locals knew yet - that the liberal leaders had been put under house arrest. I told him I thought the crack-down and purge was coming, and being that he is at an educational (i.e. student) place to walk quietly.

His ancient phone in his room is busted -again. The rotary dialer won't work. Getting things repaired takes forever. So he is trying to get his Touchbase modem to work as a pulse dialer tapped into the line. A computer assist to voice. But he now needs a modular jack he doesn't have which I will mail.

Though we both think that half the stuff that we mail him gets stolen when it reaches the local mail system.

I now have established an excellent uucp-mail contact with a 'visiting scholar' from China, computer science type, in Sacramento, California who says he has other Chinese studentfriends there who are from the Dalian area. So I am busy picking their brains about both possible telecom links to/from China (he thinks the only uucp connection is through a company in WestGermany, and it is private business) and computer science activities in the Dalian area. Of course Zhang also says that the'Chinese government' is not too keen on encouraging advanced telecommunications facilities in/from China. He noted that the Telex connection to his own university in China has been cut offin recent days.

In spite of Ed's reports about just how backwards, timid (he says they treat the students like children, who act accordingly when in school), and over-staffed (there are 200 faculty for 450 students) things are there he still is exploring the possibility of staying on in China if he can secure the right technological position. He still likes it. Which amazes me.

19:126) Frank Burns 03-JUN-89 18:50

The news from China on television tonight is not good at all. Terrible violence, many students killed, chaos. The movement for democracy has been attacked with force -- but i'm imagining the reported violence of the military will radicalize the people. Whether they will be cowed remains to be seen.

19:127) Van Gyi 04-JUN-89 2:22

I aws totally shocked to see the front page on Washington Post. Right now in China ,The parents who losts their sons and daughters might cry for the loss.The Chinese Murderer-Government might never give the student's bodies.

The Chinese Army shot on the students who have only ball-pens .I wish I could see the chinese people give punishment on fistful of *STUPID* leaders for their crime.

19:128) Margo Lynn Hablutzel 07-JUN-89 8:21

I am both incredulous and resigned. On the one hand, I cannot believe that a government would condone (and apparently even instigate) such a wholesale massacre of its citizens. On the other, from what I have seen of totalitarian societies, it is the only way the government knows how to respond to demands for reform.

19:129) Bill Robinson 07-JUN-89 19:25

The denials on their own networks that * any * deaths occured is just sickening. Just sickening.

Ed in China - (5) Messages We Exchanged

2012-05-12T16:16:53-06:00

These are selected messages from what Edward sent to me - his father - via his laptop, modem and international telephone call to my house. All going on during the Tienamen Square Crises in China.

Begin section 1 of 4 of file "DAD"
                                             July 10, 1989
Dad,

     Just to let you know up front that I tested negitive for
hepetitus. However last Monday after you called I broke-out in a
really bad rash. After a lot of typical antics that occur around
here I got to the hospital and got treatment for the allergy and
a blood test for hepetitus. The Doctors still could not offer
any explaination as to why I was sick or my allergy but all seems
to have gone away and am still a little tired but am getting
better.
     If I have time I will enclose another file about going to
the doctor in China. If it isn't there I didn't have time and
try for next time.
     My there journal file is a brief editoral concering
alternate points of view coming from my constantly "evolving
opinions". You may not wish to put it online. If not, don't
worry.

     The letter from Regina Odasz did not come through last time.
I don't know if you forgot to capture it when you packed it.
There was an error when I did a "PKA/V" and "PKX". All the files
seemed alright, though.   I did seem to get the meaning of what
she wants to do. If it where anywhere but this school it would
be a great idea. That is something that I tried to introduce to
them repeatidly but they just aren't interested. And I am not
goning to give this school any more time than what is required.
I get angry with myself for having that attitude but right now
that's the only way I can get by.
     I sat down one night and typed all the things I could think
of that where relivant problems here. When I finished I
generated about 4 pages. I have tried to be patient but they
just don't get it here.
     One example of the BS I run into. I wrote in a brief
letter, about half a page of very simple words, some of the
things that I wished to explain to the school: problems and
suggestions. One of my suggestions/requests was to discuss my
teaching schedule for next term. A week later, today, a teacher
told me my schedule without any benefit of discussion or opinion
from me. Nor did they offer any suggestions for teaching.
     Another example that about sent me through the roof. I
called Zhu Lei, the Foreign Affairs Officer in Da Gong, the one
you told me to contact. I asked him which hospital that
recommends that foreigners to go to because I might have
hepetitus. He was very concerned, told me a hospital, but asked
why I hadn't approched the school. I told them that I couldn't
get appropriate help. He said he would call the Principals
Office at the school that day, which he did.
     Later that afternoon I went to the Pricicpals Office to see
what they where going to do. They had gone home. I called Zhu
Lei back and asked if he had talked with them. He said he had
talked with both Principal Yang and Principal Wang. Zhu Lei told
me that they both had talk with me and I said that everything was
OK. Not true. I hadn't talked with either one in weeks. Zhu
Lei told me that the Principals told him that they would see me
that day. Well like I said they both left and I was in my room,
100 meters from the school, the entire day.
     I have to fair and understand that maybe there was a
misunderstand, or miscommunication. But I am pretty sure what I
have told you is accurate.
     The teacher that I told you about before, Patrick Dallas,
met with the same BS and he warned me carefully. In fact the day
after I met Patrick (I believe because I met him), he was told to
leave.
     My opinion of the leaders of this school are very afraid of
making mistakes and getting "caught' or getting in trouble. So
"cover-up" is a way of life here. Such as telling Zhu Lei that I
told them everything was OK, when I had not talked to them at
all, and everything wasn't OK.
     The "common" people here are for the most part friendly and
want to help but they have little "power" to do anything. And not
much gets done unless Principal Yang gives his say so. And he
thinks everything is fine and is willing to cover mistake. When
people report to him they are very afraid of him, and they should
be, so people always tell him that everything is fine, even if it
isn't. This includes my being as explained by others.

End Section 1 of 4, file "DAD"

Begin Section 2 of 4, file "DAD"

     My situation here isn't dangerous or unsafe for that matter.

I just cannot depend on this school for anything. I know my way
around Dalian pretty well so I can get what I need. But
essentially what that means is that it takes a lot of my time,
especially from teaching. And because of all this crap I really
am not interested in doing any more than I have to. I have
repeatidly tried to use the structure that they gave me. I have
tried communicating directly. That didn't work. I have tried to
give the people, including Principal Yang, my very polite and
well choosen feelings and opinions, but if it's bad news he
doesn't want to here. Like one teacher said, "he isn't acustomes
to hearing anything bad".
     I have talked with other foreign teacher, before they left
China, and there situation is nothing like mine. They get alot
more than I get. Less time having to teach. Better living
conditions. More responsive and responsible action and
interaction.   etc.   etc.   etc.
     I'm fine. I'm just tired of fighting everything, even those
things that don't normally involve problems. Patrick Dallas told
me that teaching in a high school is a lot of fun... just not
this school.

     You can put this online. Yes, the conection with home via
telecom is very helpful. Not so much that I am feeling down and
depressed and it brings me up. No. The telecom is a link with a
way of life I understand and simply helps maintain a normalcy
that I can relate too when other things are so clear.
     When something "pisses" me off (I laugh here at the thought
of what makes me angry and my word usage to discribe it to you:
pisses). So, when something "pisses" me off I can come back to
my room and express it in writing and that helps organize and
clearify my feelings and ideas. Helps put things in prespective.

     So, don't worry. I want to do many of the things that have
been suggested. It's just this school is a battle ground of
childishness and bickering and lack of interest. I no longer
wish to play there game. So for now please keep the suggestions
coming but until I can find another school or job for next year I
don't think much can or will be done with this school.

     Speaking of a job. I asked last time if you could help with
that task. When I asked I thought you might have get lucky and
have a connection or something. Now I am asking if you have the
time to actively prusue it. My contract isn't finsihed here
until Jan 30, 1990, but I can't wait until then. I don't have
much access to the people for the thigs I want to do. I don't
really wish to teach conversational english. I want to work at
either a University or Company in the area of computers and or
science. I can help teach scientific english, including
assitance with translation. I would perefer doing teaching and
assiting the development of telecom at a University.
     So if you can 'crank it up' online please do so. I am
willing to travel to just about anywhere in China if I have to;
or Asia if nothing is available. I am also willing to work
pretty cheap. You can speak for me as you need but I can supply
you with any information or letters that you think are necessary.

It's just at my level I don't have the right connections. My
problem is that I meet the people that are really interested.
But they have little or no power to get me further involved. And
as everywhere in China unless you are talking to a leader and
underling isn't usually going to speak up, at least not very
loud. Otherwise, it could be his butt in a sling.
     You might want to contact Princeton in Asia and explain what
I want to do. As you know, Barney Williamson won't know much
about the telecom concept but he does contact with a lot of
schools in China and Asia he might suggest some with addresses or
he might even be willing to contact some. Although his program
is suspended now I believe he might be contacting schools for the
future school terms. If he asks about this school and whether he
sould send another teacher. Tell he should think very carefully
and get a teacher that is very independent and previous Asia
teaching experince would be a great help. Right now if all
somebody cares about is getting to China then maybe here, but
that's about all...

End Section 2 of 4, file "DAD"

Begin Section 3 of 4, file "DAD"

     Tell Mom I hope she is feeling better from blood poisening.
I hope she didn't have too much trouble. I know that you where
the perfect husband attending to her every need... See things
aren't so bad here that I have lost my since of humor. No matter
how bad taste it is.
     Actually, even now as I think about what's going on this is
pretty silly. It reminds of one of those movies of what else can
go wrong/you can see it coming -- but you still surprised when it
happens. A Wood Allen imitaing Shakespearian sarcastic humor
with the irony of an ancient Greek tragedy or comedy; I haven't
figured out which yet.

     I think this is a repeat: tell Mom that the correct saline
solution arrived but she need not send any until I give further
notice. When I do ask for more I will ask and that I will
probably recommend surface/sea mail; therefore, I will give her
enough lead time. She said that Also was closing. The saline is
available at K-Mart and Target. If that still poses a problem
then call my eye doctor for his advice. His name is Dr. T.W.
Clyde.
     No news about my jacket yet. But I still haven't given up
hope. I still don't see anyone in the Dalian Post Office with a
nice new American Jacket. The only thing I can think that might
halt it is if any put something with the jacket that would make
trouble. Like literiture or pictures... I doubt it, but...

     Speaking of mom. She wrote me and said that she received an
"unpaid check" from the Bank of China via American Express. Let
me explain. When I got my first phone bill you said that you
would cover the $100. I went to the Bank of China and used my
American Express to get $100 plus a .50 service charge. I was
going to write a check and use the American Express to endorse
but the Bank of China just gave me the money with only my
American Express, no Personal Check was used, just a counter
check. The number mom asked about, 071476718, is my pasport
number. I have since done this again for $140 about a month
later plus a .70 service charge. Therefore, Mom should be
receiving another notice. I don't think I have used the card
otherwise, but I have been really busy and I might have.
     Two issues.
     Please tell Mom that you are/where going to cover those two
costs for me.
     Second, they way Mom described that notice from American
Express the way I got the money was not correct. On each
American Express statement theirare some 800 numbers for service.

If she could call them with the American Express card number at
hand and please ask American Express people what is the proper
way of getting money from the Bank of China using my card. I am
not sure but either they give me cash with my card or I use the
card to endorse my personal check. Or maybe some other way.
     Additional, when someone does call American Express could
they inquire how I could get my replacement card safely when the
one I have expires this fall. I really don't want to have you
mail it to me unless the US Post Office can fully insure it with
out any loss to myself if it gets lost and used. If American
Express can the can mail it to me, to the Bank of China, or there
is a Holiday Inn that they might be able to cooperate with. What
ever you think is best. American Express suggested going to (I
think) the Bank of China and getting a temporary replacement card
for use in China. I don't want to do this because of the hassle
you can get using a replacement card.
     It is important that I get the card, simply put, it is my
lifeline in case I meet serious trouble and have to leave China
quickly.

     Does Mom read what I send you online? If she doesn't
because of the hassle let me know. I am planning on writing here
direct via telecom, but maybe you could print some things out for
her, I know she doesn't always like to use your system, I don't
want to be more of the trouble.

     Concerning the EVAN.COM and CANADA.COM. I think they both
worked but I am not sure. I got these two files but you didn't
tell me what to do. When I typed EVAN and EVAN.COM something
happened but I wasn't sure. Later when I did a directory I
noticed a file called EVAN that I didn't remember seeing before.
Then I looked at them via Word Perpect. Correct me if I'm wrong:

when I see a XXXX.COM file I just type XXXX and this creates a
text file, or what ever, for me to look at.

End Section 3 of 4, File "DAD"

Begin Section 4 of 4, File "DAD"

     If you could send me a few 3.5" disks. I am not hurting but
I have backed everything up and that suck up a few disks and I
have some left and they are in Dalian but the supply is not
consistant (they aren't available now, for instance). They also
cost about $10 apiece! The last shipment that David mailed of
Word Perfect 4.0 came through fine, but I recommend sending the
disks individually or small groups.
     Also, small packages can delivered to this school. This
means I don't have to go 1 hour into town to get it at a post
office that may or may not be open where the person at the
counter may or may not want to help me where I have to pay 1.60Y
for a package they may or may not have been opened by customs.

     If I send you some files for people online, like Becky,
David, etc. and I label them as private will they get to them
without anyone reading them... including you? Nothing personal,
I just wish to discuss some things with people that I don't want
everyone to know.

     Is Liz Dempsey still online reading my journal stuff and the
mail that I sent her?

     Enough Business!

========

     Today is a beautiful day. A calm breeze blowing outside
with moderate and comfortable temperatures. As I work I listen
to the BBC on my shortwave, my window is open and I sit here in
my shorts and flip-flops enjoying such a nice day.
     Even with the lack of ability that this schools constantly
demonstrates I ws visiting with a teacher when she turned around
and gave me two containers of two different kinds of peanut
butter. I have been looking for peanut butter for months now. I
was told by an American teacher that peanut butter can be found.
It will just show up one day by the thousands. One container is
peanut butter with a lot of sugar. The other is my favorite:
just simple peanut butter, very little added.
     Reguarding the first container and all the sugar it has. I
always thought that only Americans had a sweet tooth that isn't
satisfied. As a nation I am sure that China doesn't consume as
much sugar as the US. But as individuals, when a Chinese has
access to sugar, that consumption is just as much as any
American.
     A dish that gets served up occasionally is wedge sliced
tomatos. In America I would expect maybe a a little salt added.
No not in China. Literally a pile of sugar is pour on top. With
five or six tomatos would call for about a cup of sugar.
     It seems that food here is has good a quality that it could
be so everything is usually cooked. And when it is cooked it is
cooked a lot. Often destroying much of the nutritional value.
     But just as in the West, the younger Chinese seem to be
getting bigger and taller then their parents before. I think
that the reason is that the food they are getting when they are
going is better quality and greater variety. A Chinese teacher
from another school told me that Chinese in Dalian are taller
than most Chinese. He explained that they where taller because
they ate seafood; and seafood contains a lot of zinc which helps
in making people taller. I am sure that a smiliar result can be
found in many other costal cities in China as wele as elsewhere.

     Another interesting fact about Dalian. As far as northern
cities in China go, I was told that the people in Dalian where
very fashion concious. As I am able to tell this seems true. A
friend even joked that the young people will spend more money on
clothes than food!
     My friend also said that he liked Dalian because the women
in Dalian where very pretty compared to other cities and his job
requires to travel all over China. I think I agree with him. As
a young man I can quite an enjoyable time just going downtown to
"look around".

     So, life in Dalian can be good for one reasonor another,
it's just this school doesn't got it... So I'm taking my time
elsewhere!

     Anyway, i close it now. I have a lot of other work to do
before you call tonight. Talk to you later.

                              Ed in China

End Section 4 of 4, File "DAD"

Ed in China - (4) Our FIRST Modem Link

2012-05-16T09:03:16-06:00

Item 185 27-MAY-89 15:31 Dave Hughes

DIRECT FROM CHINA !!!

Ok, I am starting this a s a NEW Item (continuation from Item 19 because at last we can hear *directly* from China, not through my summaries. My son Ed, in China now, and I have finally overcome the technical problems and are telecomming directly!

179 Discussion responses

185:1) Dave Hughes 27-MAY-89 15:33

OUR FIRST GRASS-CURSOR ROOTS TELECOM CALL TO/FROM CHINA!

My son Ed Hughes in Dalian, China took a Toshiba 1000, Procomm, and a Touchbase 1200 Worldport modem (which also can accept acoustic cups) He had tried calling Chariot in Colorado and Twics in Tokyo but the acoustic cups couldn't get carrier.

Then he had a problem where his ancient Chinese voice phone in his room quit pulse dialing. And of course there is no RJ11 jack on any of their phones. I told him if he could hook the center two of four wires inside the RJ11 female jack port on his Worldport to the phone wires with alligator clips he could pulse dial the phone with ATDP. (I learned that trick in Paris when I couldn’t get a jack) He asked me to send an RJ11 male connector with wires because he couldn't get a grip on the red/green wires inside the tiny tiny worldport (bout 2 inches).

And as he points out there are FEW tech tools in that part of China. So its hacker tools all the way.

Before it got there by the slow mail, he managed to carefully pull the two brass center wires out from the RJ11 itself, get a grip, hook them to the phone wires. (The phone is so primitive it has a box with hand wrapped coils between the wall and the instrument.) It worked! So he could voice call again.

So then we discussed trying to do a direct computer-to-computerconnection where I would call him from MY desktop, and he, sitting there would set up his computer and modem hooked to hisroom phone and type ATA without hitting C/R and wait for my call.

I told him as soon as he heard the phone ring, hit the C/R and his modem would (1)take the phone off the hook and (2)generate the answer modem tone.

(Then I would hear in my telephone instument whose line runs into the computer modem port and out again to the wall I would hear it, and press Enter on MY computer, whose Procom was set to ATD, and we should get a connection!)

We just did that, first at 1200 baud 8N1 and we got a connect, but the garbage noise was too high and we dropped back to 300 and tried again.

SUCCESS! The session-capture below is the FIRST data conversation we have had. Of course when you do a direct computer to computer call like that, there is no full duplex echo, so unless one sets Procomm to half duplex one does NOT see one's own typing. I was so concentrated on communicating with him I didn't think to change to half-duplex, so the capture is only of his incoming real-time typing.

So here is 'Xiao' Ed Hughes' first successful micro-modem telecom from China through international circuits, ancient Chines pulse dialed phones, hand wrapped coils, hacked out connections, from a laptop computer, at 3:30 AM Sunday from his room in Dalian, China – where the students are still on strike. It was 12:30 PM Saturday here in Old Colorado City. I was using my lap top with internal modem.

-------

Ed's Half of the complete session

-------

CONNECT

hello I have a connect please type ed

I am here I receive you perfectly clear with no garbage over

I will call now if you want

what is the number my id and password. over

want me to try a short upload of text or not? over

not now. to chariot it will take about ten minutes then I will call chariot

and leave two message one is typed and upload over

ok. I hate to talk money but I will let you know the cost.

I used my American express for $100 (to let you know) and it is easy to get money here

(also if you want anything just tel me and you get an amex bill

that is all for me so say goodbye and I will try chariot over

yes perfectly it is 3:30 am on sunday over

sample what and how

[I tried an upload, but mistakenly grabbed an unscrubbed (not pure

ascii) Wordstar File)

stop stop stop stop

much garbage about 15 to 20 % garbage

I can understand the message but the last letter or two is usually bad

a nd other garbage over

I agree with alt-f1 and will call chariot now

and you can call me in a few days

let me get re-familair with procomm and then we can further experiment...

good-bye

185:2) Dave Hughes 27-MAY-89 15:34

From ed Sat May 27 12:46 MDT 1989

Hello from china!

this is my first offical message

everything is well for me here

my health is good and most people are quite friendly

just many are very curious about a tall blond hair blue eyed

wie-gou (forgiener).

I am far from beijin and it hard to get news except for the BBC and VOA

however I heard that Li Peng has gained power and that has made thte

people heard in low spirts, I hope things will be succesfull for

democracy here. This country needs it badly. This is the epitamy

of not what you know but who you know

that is all for now

tech notes: there is about a 1 to 2 second delay on character echo

which is expected and I think we should try and fix a time that you can

call

me every week and I leave my computer on and in answer mode and you can

upload any notes I have for the week

other wise call me between 10 pm and 12 midnight if you want to voice talk

to me. It will take a few days but I will be ready with an upload

and to be familiar with PROCOMM again

end of message

by from china!

185:3) Dave Hughes 27-MAY-89 15:36

Ok, folks. Who needs fax or telex. We got Ascii! Any questions?

(we need to make it so I can call him, because his cals are

over $200 an hour outgoing. I can get in for like $50 an hour.

So we will either host mode the Procomm or use some minibbs.)

Any questions for 'Xiao' Ed?

185:4) Gordon Cook 28-MAY-89 16:34

Well maybe you want to let him know that today's NY Times carried an article about the Netnews/Usenet conversations on China in the last 2 weeks and explained how when Chinese students in Berkely heard that students in Tienamin Square needed garbage removed they bought 1800 king

size plastic garbage bags and put one of heir number on a flight o Beijing to deliver them!!!!!

185:5) Dave Hughes 28-MAY-89 19:15

Neat!

185:6) Sanyakhu Amare 29-MAY-89 9:18

Damn Dave...real exciting stuff!!

185:7) Lisa Carlson 30-MAY-89 11:05

wowie zowie! this is what networking is all about!

185:8) Bill Robinson 30-MAY-89 21:50

Really terrific!!!

185:9) Frank Burns 03-JUN-89 9:36

Yes, great. And i'm wondering if you're trying more experiments this weekend.

185:10) Dave Hughes 03-JUN-89 15:01

Once the shooting started in Beijing I called son Ed in Dalian (2:30 am there) to be sure he knew the cheese would probably get binding everywhere in China now. He knew from radio reports of the first attacks by riot police, but not of the army assaults with weapons.

He repeated that things had not changed in the last week in Dalian. Students still marched, and posters were up, but at no different level of intensity.

He went the 4 miles downtown by bus to Stalin Square Sunday, risked taking some pictures of 'several hundred' students protesting in the square. They were handing out leaflets which the populace eagerly were grabbing up. He was the only foreigner visible in the square. A plain clothesman who spoke only Chinese approached him, flashed ID, and escorted him over to a uniformed policeman who spoke English. The uniformed policeman asked whether he spoke English, he said yes, so the policeman asked him to leave the square. So he did.

On the more pleasant side, he made a two day trip with adult students and faculty to a place north called Zhuanghe, where he saw 'beautiful oriental rugs' being made in a factory. (his mother wants an oriental rug). Then they walked through an ancient Chinese park which they thought would take an hour but took 5, starting with a climb up stone stairs of over 700 steps.

He said it was a 'typical low cloud Chinese day.'

He finally received two airmail packages from us. One an excellent book 'China, Inc' I sent him about how to do business in China. He thinks it very accurate about how to deal withChinese.

He has been asked to meet and speak with senior officials in the Dalian 'Bank of China.' Word has gotton around that he is technically competant. He will try to dial into our system in Colorado from the bank, as a demo. So now, besides a petrochemical company and a computer company, a bank is interested in him and his technological skills. Which he can demonstrate from a Toshiba 1000 lap top and an American Touchbase modem. If the whole country does not go into a new cultural revolutionary anti-foreign phase, our Old Colorado City Communications efforts to start doing computer/modem/telecombusiness in China through the ancient seaport may yet work. And with the new 9600 baud packet radio sets our maker is about to deliver, we just might have a hell of a market!

We also set up, orally, an automatic upload/download direct micro to micro session for next Tuesday morning. At which time he will have written (and arced) report on the local fall out from the latest in Beijing. And we will upload requirements for export. Just as if everything is normal.

185:11) Gordon Cook 03-JUN-89 17:57

WOW!

185:12) Frank Burns 03-JUN-89 18:01

Wow. Thanks for the continuing reports Dave. I'm troubled by the shooting -- but certainly pleased you're still in good contact and that Ed is doing fine through all this.

And double wow -- did you really say 9600 baud packet radio? Now that's a breakthrough.

185:13) Dave Hughes 03-JUN-89 19:22

Yes, 9600 baud. The key is the radio, not the packet. So both our custom-supplier and TAPR, the ham supplier are shipping this month combined radio+packet for the $500 range.

185:14) Dave Hughes 03-JUN-89 19:37

Yes, Ed told his mother not to worry, he is 'safe'.

What will be intersting to find out from him is what will happen to the Dalian students who 'struck.' For in order to justify the hard-liners approach they went on national tv and claimed they were being attacked by a 'counter-revolutionary' movement.

Which of course are code words for treasonous citizens. But what makes *this* protest-reaction different from the Cultural Revolution of over a decade ago, is the incredible amount of multi-level/channel communications coming out of there transmitting the attack on the protesters in all its violence. Such things as the CBS evening news broadcasting he voice and gunfire sounds in the square live right up until the reporting team was attacked, equipment ripped out of their hands, yells and grunts (and ironically even the digital sounds of a phone being dialed), and then being taken into custody violently, the still photos (transmitted by some kind of color fax?) all have sent the horror across the globe as nothing else could.

All of which backfire on the hard-liners via other governmentsunder pressure from their own aroused public that will change the course of history.

And I think, given the non-violent and controlled behavior of the students all these weeks, the sympathy will all go to them. Can hard-line leadership with an aroused Chinese population

long last?

185:15) Frank Burns 03-JUN-89 19:39

So are we (MDG) in the que for this? What do we need to do on our end?

185:16) Frank Burns 03-JUN-89 19:42

My guess, dave, is no. Violence done to non-violent people is not something most people of the world can stomach in this age of communication.

185:17) Dave Hughes 03-JUN-89 19:49

It appears that the abortive attempt to clear the square yesterday with riot police backup up by unarmed (directly) soldiers, was so botched when the public contfronted them in the side streets,sending the soldiers, humiliated back out from the center, that the enraged ultra-hard liners got the go ahead to use all force. But there may even have been disobeyed orders and dis-honor

among the hard asses. There is a report there were negotiations and an agreement by student leadership to leave the square but the army attacked one hour before the deadline. (they are on daylight savings time too. Some commander have his watch set wrong?)

I'll bet this will trigger an even greater internal leadership power struggle-debate.

185:18) Bill Robinson 03-JUN-89 20:39

Book it. Those students have laid it on the line, gotten international recognition in the media. No way will it stop here, I think.

185:19) Dave Hughes 04-JUN-89 10:58

Frank, you say you are deeply troubled by the shooting. My angergoes so deep that if I had the opportunity I would dispatch Peng and Deng right off this planet by my own hand, and never think twice about it. Evil is evil.

ABC reports that the Red Cross in Beijing estimates over 2,000 were killed.

The video films which had to be flown to Hong Kong before being satellite transmited to the US clearly show that the students were willing to confront the armored, buttoned down vehicles directly and closely, leaping on top and beating them with sticks. Not a few, but whole crowds.

And one reporter says it was not only students, but that as fire was being directed at one group, the people in it - working people were chanting 'strike, strike' - the labor organizations protest.

185:20) Bill Robinson 04-JUN-89 13:13

These reports that soldiers were going into hospitals and demanding that doctors stop treatment of injured demonstrators -- does anyone have first-hand witness to that?!?

185:21) Matt Minahan 04-JUN-89 22:24

There were also some second hand reports that the soldiers had just heaped the bodies of dead and wounded together, on a pile with broken bicycles and debris, and torched it all . . . Gawd, how can we do this to ourselves?

185:22) Taylor Walsh 04-JUN-89 23:59

Grisely reports from CBS just now, plus a photo of a soldier apparently lynched and burned by the students.

Reports also said some doctors were killed in the hospitals attempting to treat patients (this from ABC). Also that the government in trying to downplay the numbers has tried to collect bodies and burn them.

Tonite (morning in China) CBS says the Army has civilians "pinned down".

I am reminded of the film "Unbearable Lightness of Being" which appeared last year and which succeeded in intermingling the fiction with footage from the Soviet crush of the uprising in Prague in 67 (around which the novel and film are played). I am reminded of those scenes by those of this weekend in Beijing. Terribly similar: heady demonstrations for democracy that seem to take root in the populace.

Then the tanks.

I only hope more reasonable hearts and minds are in the leadership and that they can act.

185:23) Gordon Cook 05-JUN-89 9:37

News repoprt on Today this morning at 8:30 am that the US embassy has sent 10 minibuses to main university to retrieve American students studying there, that some soldiers have fired on other soldiers, and that a column of soldiers in 200 military vehicles left their vehicles and set them afire.

Reports last night that showed soldiers seated at curbside looking absolutely miserable with crowds glowering at them from a few feet away, neither saying much to the other.

Resemblance to Prague is only skin deep. this is too big and also not the troops of one country against the people of another.

Heard last night that these troops are from the distant provinces and had been told to expect something other than what they saw. The lid may blow next in shanghai.

185:24) Dave Hughes 05-JUN-89 11:16

There also may be clashes between two parts of the Army whose leaders are loyal to either thehard-liners or the reformers. Parts of the Army have undoubtedly been horrified at the brutality shown by the parts who were brought in from afar and told that they would be fighting an armed insurrection.

And Bush's announcement that we will stop military sales will convince others that the modernization of the Chinese military has been jeopardized, playing further on the strains *within* the military leadership.

Remember that the Chinese army itself had suffered deep cutbacks, so much so that soldiers went without pay, during the economic 'reforms' of Deng.

So politics internal to the military leadership may become a much larger factor now.

I simply can't see Peng and Deng staying on top much longer. With nation after nation taking some action against the regime. Wanna bet the private diplomatic messages are all saying "We won't cooperate as long as those who did this bloody deed are in power?"

185:25) Gordon Cook 05-JUN-89 14:51

I hope you are right dave. Bush said we would stop military sales??? Good!

Looking forward to your micro to micro connect with Ed tomorrow!

185:26) Matt Minahan 05-JUN-89 16:31

I just learned that the World Bank has called its China staff home . . .

185:27) Dave Hughes 05-JUN-89 18:15

A CNN in-country reporter quotes an unnamed Chinese official (whom he said had no reason to fabricate the story), that doctors treating wounded soldiers found them so hyper that they checked blood and urine samples and found drugs. The soldiers said they had been injected before the clash by doctors who told them they were to prevent disease from the unsanitaryconditions in the square.

Which the CNN reporter says could account for the extreme actions of the soldiers.

Bizzare, but plausible. Especially since the regime was as much worried about the reliability of the soldiers as they were the loyalty of their officers.

185:28) Gordon Cook 05-JUN-89 18:20

Glad to see the pull back by the Bank.

Astounding story dave.!

I am tempted to try to find and join the china news group on usenet. The rtraffic must be something!

185:29) Bill Robinson 05-JUN-89 19:19

Incredible. Why didn't anyone else pick up on that, for God's sake?

185:30) Dave Hughes 05-JUN-89 19:42

Things move very fast in the news world, Bill. It came from one CNN reporter (Chinoy), by phone to the live news at 4:30 here. Other networks wouldn't repeat it just because one reporter said it - not revealing his source. They are probably scramblingto confirm it for themselves.

That military split is *very* obvious now, and might precipitate a civil war if the 27th Army (in the center of the city with its large armored force, which now looks as much as if they are 'protecting' the government from military coup, as keeping the people away) moves against the students in the university compounds.

For other elements (38th Army I think) have moved in close enough to place themselves between the 27th and the compounds.

185:31) Dave Hughes 05-JUN-89 19:47

The soc.culture.china newsgroup is pretty wild, Gordon. (I have it feeding into my system here). But with the 2-4 day 'cycle' time of comments, with distribution taking 2-3 days, the mixture of calm statements, frantic messages, old stuff juxtaposed with new stuff, its pretty psychedelic.

Comments reflecting the beginning of the massacre entered into some systems are only now reaching the end distribution points.

185:32) Dave Hughes 05-JUN-89 19:50

The images of that lone man who stood his ground before a column of 18 tanks, which stopped cold, tried to turn right and he followed, tried to turn left and he followed, then just sat there while he stood there, then clambered atop it and started lecturing the crew before other civilians 'rescued' him is as classic an image as will ever be seen in this whole affair.

On the Avenue of Heavenly Peace....

185:33) Dave Hughes 05-JUN-89 21:21

Here, Gordon, are some of the more interesting comments from the last 300 messages in the china newsgroup -----MANY ARE FROM CHINESE STUDENTS STUDYING IN AMERICA AND ARE THE CHILDREN OF WELL HEELED CHINESE GOVERNMENT AND MILITARY PARENTS (I will get other direct computer to computer messages from Edward in a few days.)

Article 18474 of 18511, Sun 18:27.

Subject: Where is the 38th Army?

From: ls2r+@ANDREW.CMU.EDU (Lui Sieh)

(25 lines) More? [ynq]

The foreign barbarians got the 27th Army of President Yang Shangkun to do the dirty work. According to a phone call this morning (8am EST) to a Professor from Bei Da, he said that the troops were from the West and that they were "veterans". This sounds very suspicious like it is the personal army of Yang Shangkun.

But, where was the Beijing Army Commander and the 38th Army? Accordingto my sources, the two old marshals of Deng's rank had said they would attack anyone who would first shoot the students in Tiananmen Square.

My source was from one of the Generals of the 38th Army. But, where arethey now?!

The Beijing Army Commander and the 38th Army commander should be ashamedto allow such a bloody crime be committed right in front of their faces!!!

I agree with the netter who suggest that we call the Generals and tell them to not kill Chinese.

-Lui

Down with Li Peng!!!!!!!

Down with the CCP!!!!!!

Long live China and the brave Chinese people!!!

Long live Democracy!!!

--------------

Article 18483 of 18511, Sun 19:43.

Subject: Don't be Surprised about this Massacre: it Came a Long Way

Keywords: Vietnam, Lasha to Beijing

From: zhang@cs.rochester.edu (Zhang Ju @ U of Rochester, CS Dept, Rochester,

We didn't care about the brutality of PLA troops in Vietnam. Trainees in

Chengdu Army Official's School returning from Sino-Vietnam 1979 war told a lot of horrible stories about killing literally everyone.

We didn't care much about the shooting at protesters in Tibet. Some still insist on that it's reasonable for PLA to kill in Lasha.

This time, they are killing our sisters and brothers.

So, don't be surprised by this. The bullets approached us rather slowly and we simply refused to pay any attention if didn't praise it. I appreciated their brutallity in Vietnam (God forbiden) and felt indifferent about killings in Lasha. It's us who tolerated the PLA getting used to charging fires at civilians.

When you make your tiger thirsty for human blood, the next victim is you your self. The solution is unambiguous eliminate this tiger from the earth by any means.

-----------------

The oversea phone calls to Beijing have done great jobs for the past month.

The oversea phone calls to Shanghai have contributed alot too the great transportion paralyzing in Shanghai.

The phone no. of Jiao Tong Univ. at Shanghai is:

310310 ask for Students Union (24 hour on duty.)

The phone no. of Fudan Univ. at Shanghai is:

operator 011-86-21-484906 ask for Student Union

-485903 ask for youth teacher.

I urge all of us call the you home University and home time as much as possile, Especially Cities that are NOT Beijing , Guangzhou,and shanghai.

Cities like Wuhan , Xian , Shangyang , Nanjing ,etc. got lots of students who are the pioneers of the fight.

----------

(messages betweeb Ed and I continued in subsequent postings)

Ed in China and I in Japan (7) Lots Going On

2012-05-16T10:19:18-06:00

Lots Going On

News about our 'Modem Connection' to China spread. Journalists called. The local Gazette Telegraph newspaper, besides doing a feature story on our unusual link up by personal computers and small modems, but also Ed's views, being caught up in the China government versus student troubles. A reporter actually reached him by telephone in his room, and did a story on his reactions to events..

Ed continued his work at the Trade School, though he became more and more frustrated with the incessent bureacracy.

The Consulate still pressed all Americans to leave the country - especially those in one academic situation or another while the Chinese government lobbied everyone to stay - including Dalian School officials (its all about money)

Even the Mayor of Dalian invited all remaining Americans In Dalien - including Edward - (perhaps 10) to a meeting, urging them all to stay. This very 'progressive' Mayor, who was a prime mover in getting the first Foreign Trade Zone in China established in Dalian, much later - 2010 - ran afoul of the Chinese Communist central committe. He was accused of crimes, tried, convicted, and jailed for life in 2013,

For his own reasons, Ed stayed - and at one time he was the only American left in that city of 4 million.

Below are three of what he called his 'Journal' entries that he composed and then sent very efficiently over the modem connection at quite low cost to me - LESS than $15 a 20-30 minute call, rather than his call to my phone. Which was $5 a minute.

Begin Section 1 of 3, file "JRL"

     The following part of my journal entry for the week. It is
essentially my current opinion of the situation in China.
     "Current Opinion"? What could that mean? It means that I
have only been in China for four months and the information that
I am dealing with is seldom complete and not always accurate.
Some that information includes my own infant knowledge of Chinese
histroy, recent and ancient. As the days quickly go by here in
China my ideas and opinions are constantly changing - hopefully growing. But none-the-less what I have written here is just an attempt by myself to put down "on paper" an alternative view as to the current situation in China as I see it today.
      Just wait, tomorrow it will probably change; hopefully becoming
more clear and objective.
     Maybe. Maybe not.

Saturday, July 8, 1989 © 07:52 am

     The longer I am here the more frustrated I get. I get
angry when I read the China Daily, the official english
national newspaper for China. Many of my beliefs and values are
simple violated every time I look at the paper. As far as I
am concerned the paper is lying, printing the views of the
Chinese Government at this time.
     I also get frustrated when I listen to my Shortwave Radio. I
listen to VOA (Voice of America) and the BBC. I am begining
to hear the view points of Western Governments and their
citizens.
     These view points sometimes show little understanding or
respect for another culture; to the extent that sometimes China
as a Country isn't recognized.
     These two feelings tugging at me from two different
directions leaving me like a child lost from its mother in a
department store. I know where I am but I don't know how to
deal with my problems.
      The China Daily will publish articles about the
offical happening in Tien An Men Square and Beijing in Early
June. The articles say that no students were killed in the
square and all the people left peacefully. That it was only a
'few ruffians'that caused the trouble... I ask, siliently, if it
was only a few ruffians then how could so many soldiers be killed
according to official reports; or how so many military vehicles
where disabled and destroyed?
     Now the Government said that it recently passed a law which
it has been developing for ten years that establishes new
policies toward protests. Some of these: only one group can
protest (no multiple unions), no protesting near important
buildings, no one is allowed to speak out against the Communist
Party or the Central Commitee.
     Ten Years in the making?
     I'd bet the house that didn't take ten days...
     I literally stand in the middle of all this control and
watch it descend over the people, and the people don't even
wince. Much of my upbringing is attacked as this happens. Sadly
it settles in. that this has been the way of life in this country
for thouands of years. This is normal, I'm the one with the
strange ideas.
     The government can install its plans beautifly. They
continually fall back to the line: '"China is in the primary
stage of socialism and class struggle still exists to a certain
extent, the construction of democratic politics can only be
carried out in an orderly fashion through legal channels."' (A
quote from the July 4, 1989 China Daily which quoted the Minister
Wang Fang) Essentially, the people who decide what is legal and
orderly is the Central Commitee and can make the rules as they go
along. There don't really exist any checks or balances. Things
get done by the Central Commitee as they need them. Whether it's
morally right or wrong; I mean they decide what's moral or not...

End Section 1 of 3, File "JRL"

Begin Section 2 of 3, File "JRL"

        Don't think the Chinese people don't understand. More than
ever they do now. The have begun to see the outside world and
the way things can be done elsewhere. Their own sense of right
and wrong, or good and bad, etc., is being changed by outside
influences. But I am learning is if people stand up for those
rights or changing beliefs is dangerous. People get thrown in
jail with little explanation, sent to the country side, and even
killed or executed. All in the name of worker-class struggle.
        Yesterday I was sitting in a garden park with a Chinese
friend. Actually all my firends here are Chinese, there aren't
any Americans or foreigners around. Anyway, the garden park is
located in the city's affulent section. I thought that in China
you weren't supposed to have "rich" parts of town, but who said
you had to follow the rules. My friend and I were talking about
the situation in China and in one of his replies he said that he
wanted to form a group of young men like himself to work to
eliminate the corruption in the government and to help develop a
democracy in his country. His words where simple, but quite
complete. And his one or two sentence statement could get him
arrested and possibly in jail for a long time.
        No the people don't believe all the propaganda. But when
that becomes almost your entire source of information it becomes very difficult to sort out facts from fabrication from true opinions.
        So whom do you follow if you don't follow your goverment? I think the people do what most people anywhere would do; they
surround themselves with friends and family to form their own
little empire and only deal with the government when they have
to. China and many developing countries are known for the
tightness of their families. This originally came about because
within a agricultural society usually familiy is all you have.
But this model works as well when you go into the city. Where
the city is just as uncertian as rural life.
        There are times that I walk down the street and I feel like I
am living in a anarchial society where it is only the goodness and
basic nature of the people that keeps things going and under-
control. When I first got here the thousands of people seemed
like a hopeless mass of confusion. Actually as I integrate a
little in this society I realize that the movement of people is
well orchestrated and smooth. Again, I'm the one that's breaking
up that flow.
        I am fascinated just by watching people cross one of the
major streets through Dalian. Cars, buses, and trucks are
traveling at about 30 km/hr and bicycles crusing along side att
here slightly more than leasurerly pace. All the while hundreds
of people are constantly crossing the street only using the
street lights as mild assistance. Usually vehicles and bicycles
don't even demonstrate a resemblence of slowing as they approach a crowd of dozens of people in the middle of the road.

The drivers needn't slow, they just maintain a straight path and a
steady pace and the mass pedestrians assure the drivers, all be
it, the smallest of lines for cars and buses or bicycles. The
crowd on foot gracefully weaves with all the traffic and gets
across the road as smooth and quick as anyone would in the US who uses the traffic lights as their guide.
        So when westerners, including myself, are surprised by the
lack of action or reaction by the Chinese I don't think they realize
this has been a way of life for thousands of years.

        As an outsider who believes that I care what happens here I
try to think of what I would do if I were the one making the
decisions affecting China, like that of President Bush.
        This is when I get frustrated with western thinking. A lot
of people want to impress a lot of sanctions and give a lot of
political pressure on China. But to much of this pressure has
its roots only within western understanding and much western philosophy.

       China is its own country. The have been a nation and culture a lot longer than most others. Especailly compared to industrial
nations. I keep hearing reports of what sanctions governments
are considering and what people think the Government here should do and think.
        I, in no way, agree with the actions of the Chinese
Government starting June 3. The use of the military was brutal
and unprovolked. It was wrong.
        But other countries seem to think they should tell China how to run their country. As if the 'other' country has a perfect
sense of right and wrong. What's right and wrong in America
isn't the same everywhere.
        This is human life and the killing of people, not arguing
whether a man was borrowing or stealing. Let me ask how many
people have died in the name of the spread of democracy?

End Section 2 of 3, File "JRL"

Begin Section 3 of 3, File "JRL"

     I feel that if people or nations want to work with this
country (or any other) they will have to develop their guide
lines and understand that not everything done is their way.
President Bush's action to prohibit importation of military and
other specific technology to China was appropriate. If we begin
to argue the philosophical details of everything coming here to
China then ultimately it could be argued that nothing should be
allowed.
     Countries, large or small, should voice the position and
very carefully decided what proper action they should take and
stand by that action. During that decsion respect has to be
maintained that China is its own country and has its own cultural
which drives its actions and reactions.
     Some people seemed baffled that China doesn't swing it's
doors wide open to the goodness of the west and countries like
America. I ask these people to read a little history. It was
western countries that came to China, uninvited, and invaded it
in one way or another. The Shanghai Wars was over Tea rights and opium. The Boxer rebellion and China were trying to
maintain its country as a whole, not western countries
colonization. Or when America strongly backing the KMT, whom still oppose the mainland.
     If you were in the Government of China would you trust
westerners?

     Everyday I struggle whether I should stay in China or not. I
get angry everytime I turn around and here what the government of China is doing. It is going to be used in one way or another by
the propaganda of Chinese Government.

     The sanctions imposed towards China still take time to have
an effect. But the effects of the Governments cruel assault on
Tien An Men Square are being felt now and very hard.
     I went to a trade fair being held in Dalian. It is the
second largest in China next to the one held in Guangzhou in the
late spring. I've walked through the fair twice now and I see
very few foreigners and have only seen two westerns other than
myself. A friend of mine at the fair said that there have been
very few foreingers this year compared to the past.
     Actually, you are supposed to have a ticket to get into the
fair. The first time I went was with another Chinese friend who
didn't have a ticket. Unfortunatly, if your Chinese in China you
aren't allowed to go or do things that foreigners are. I thought
he would have trouble getting into the fair. Because he was with
me they allowed him in. The next time I went I had just come
from the hospital and I wasn't feeling well and I certainatly
didn't look like a businessman wearing old jeans, a common knit
shirt and two days beard growth. I tried to ask the man at the
gate if I could buy a ticket, we just waived me through, no
discussion needed -- I was a westerner, nothing else needed.
     Inside, people looked at me either like a ghost or fresh
meat. Even after I tried to explain to them that I was teacher
and not a businessman they would still give me their card and
brochures. They would ask me to give them to my friends and many would ask if I knew anyone in America that would be interested in a joint venture.
     I would expect the politeness by the business at the fair
that usually afforded to western foreigners, but even after I
explain who I am they still keep pressing. If told them that I
wasn't interested in anything but would like some lunch I fear
that they would set a banquet for me; just because I am an
American and just maybe I could bring them business.
     Chinese businesses are hurting.
     There is little that governments actually have to impose.
The natural order of things is creating enough pressure to be felt
by the businesses. They need to spend more of their time
discussing the issuses of human rights and the position of the
country; not the moral and philosophical points of an export.

     I learned in high school one of Newtons Laws: for every
action there is an equal and opposite reaction. In college I had
economics teacher use that same concept in his class and it worked very well im China.     People outside China need to appreciate that that laws are taking tremendous effect within China and without Government direct action. Also, people have to understand if they push too hard from the outside of China inward the same effect can happen to them. In other words, China could close its doors even further. Some say that could never happen, China would lose too much. That's easy to say if you not Chinese.
     If China were to close its doors I would foresee great
economic trouble and even failure and possible fighting and civil
war. On a Chinese population scale. A lot of people would
probably die and a lot of suffering. But that has been a
constant throughout Chinese history.

     So the reaction in and out of China is being felt by the
Chinese Central Commitee and by Li Peng and Deng Xiao Peng due to the bad decision made by the same. It is also being felt by millions of Chinese. And if we, the people who can have an
effect on China, are not careful we may fall prey to that same
law of action and reaction. You push an animal far enough into a
corner there's a very good chance you're going to get bit.

End Section 3 of 3, File "JRL"

========================================================

Between Ed's description above, Ed was involved with many things. And so was I - for my Colorado Springs fame in telecommunications had even spread to Japan - which was just beginning to wake up to the potential in 'personal' (computer and modem) telecommunications riding on already existant national and international voice telephone communications networks.

I had been invited to become part of Lisa Karlson's and Frank Burns' 'Metanet Designs Group' out of Virginia, near Washington DC - which contracted to teach executives in companies and government agencies the professional value of 'modem connected individuals' inside large organizations. Collectively, a group of about 10 of us who could afford the trip agreed to fly to Sendai, Japan, whose local government invited us to make presentations and be queried by the Japanese Press, at the same time my son Ed was in nearby Dalian, China.

Ed was invited to play a bit part in a tourism movie about China.

A local Chinese bank heard about his being able to reach America by modem. They asked him to demonstrate - at the Bank. Which he did to the amazement of all. He was asked about 'joint ventures.' The impulse by China to start doing real international business was ramping up.

My largest formal audience presentation in Sendai was attended by at least 300 Japanese, including both businessmen and local governments officials. Several of the latter officials were especially interested in my BBS for 'Electronic Democracy.'

While I was coincidentally in Japan as part of the Metanet Gang. I was invited to be on NHK television. Which presentation interested Japanese print papers, one of which flew later to Colorado Springs to interview me in my 'network.

'While there I was also contacted by a Japanese man whose wife had travelled to a lodge of some sort north of Dalian, China on a vacation trip. But she forgot her wedding ring which was still at that Chinese Lodge. The lodge did not want to send it by flakey Chinese postal service to Japan They asked me to ask Ed if there was any way HE could retrieve the ring and get it to them somehow. He DID, and a Japanese businessman took it to Japan then got it to the couple.

I also had a chance to meet many Japanese who could converse in English. One memorable meeting was with a Japanese national who was an Episcopal minister, whose Japanese father had died in 1945 as a soldier on Guam.

Being more Episcopal than anything, I even attended his Sunday Church service, attended by pehaps 25 Japanese, and dined with his family at his home.

After the dinner he presented me with a large (18 inches high) Japanese figure in traditional costume inside a protective plastic box. Which still graces my home in Colorado Springs.

Just a month after the crises in Tianamen Square, when the Crises had calmed down a bit Ed took a train ride to Beijing from Dalian. A student went with him as his guide. This was NOT a tourist-class trip - but right the way Chinese people do it in crowded and open passenger cars. Very crowded and uncomfortable for a very tall American.

Ed wandered around Tienaman Square without being challenged. But he couldn't visit any of the tourist sites or enter the Great Hall.

Then, unbeknowst to us, Ed started spending time with one Chinese young woman who also taught at the Trade School. He even visited her parent's home, and they went all around Dalian together. And before we knew it, with NO warning, they took the train from Dalian to Shenyang and on March 24th, 1990, GOT MARRIED!

And when we learned about it, this is what WE sent out by email!

Col (Ret) and Mrs David R Hughes are happy to announce that

                                      ,
_____   ____                 /     |____
|       |   \               /\     |   /
|___    |    |    &    [] /--\     ___
|       |    |              []       |
|____   |___/                       \|

      Ed          &        Ha      Ning

                  Hughes

were married at 4:15 PM, Saturday, March 24th in

Dalian, China

Good wishes will have to be tendered by modem.

---------
The father of the bride is retired Chinese Red Army officer (Colonel, doctor).

We served together - sort of - during the Korean War in the winter of 1950.

On opposite sides.

None of this would have occured had it not been for modem telecom.

We live in interesting times.

Patsy and I couldn't wait to meet my new daughter-in-law.

Ed in China (6) More Messages and Answers

2012-05-16T18:45:34-06:00

This first is Ed's email just to me, followed by a long description of life in China as he is living it.

To Dad
Reply to letter written June 25th, 1989, received June 26, 1989

June 3, 1989

Before I begin, my reply to Harry Stevens is my journal
entry for this week. So that letter can be edited to be put
online.

Actually there is quite a bit to look at. I would say I'm
less than a mile, as the crow flies, to the ocean, or is that
Yellow Sea? There is a lot to see but people are more interested
in daily life - which you understand can be hard work - than in
exploring the world. And when I talk to people they're not much
interested in telling me about their town, more interested in me.
I understand their interest in me, but little is said about
China, especially Dalian. But I pick up pieces here and there.
Tell Regina and Frank that I use Big Sky Telegraph as one of
my best examples in describing the power of telecom.
Most of what "I see" is via VOA and BBC. I get angry when I
hear of the executions, I understand why the government is doing
it, and of course I don't agree, but understanding why is what
makes me even more angry.
I like the reporting on VOA the best, however the editorials
on BBC are very good and seem to get to the point and remove all
the sensationalism that most people are attracted to.

I read the notices about the Washington Post, Link-up, etc.
So, what do you think of your dsylexic son now? Functional
illiteracy at youth can pay off!

I will keep writing as I can. I want to put most of what I
do down. Therefore my journal will start to have current
political situation mixed with everything else. I will try and
keep them distinct enough so you can seperate things out
easily enough. But it will be written in a chronolgical-thought
order for now (editing occurs later).

If ever I cannot be at home when I expect your call for an
upload/download I will set my system on automatic. Therefore if
you recive and send then it hangs up it mean I probably not
around. That is why I want to see how to modify the program to
send you a file to your screen to let you know if I'm here or
not, or something else important. Monday night is a good night
for calls. Sunday and Wednesday nights are usually not too good.
Concerning Dagoon Computer Company. I should be getting
names and addreses in China, as well as a company description.
Because of the situation in China things are happening a little
slowly. There is interest in giving me about 1000 Yuan FEC and
then have you send me two modems (not one) as a gift. Then I let
them use it. I have thought of this idea before but if there was
any trouble it just makes things really complicated. But if you're
interested this could save the hassle of getting an export
license. I don't care what you chose to do, it makes no
difference to me.
I think they would enjoy some literature about some modems.
That's no big deal, but it might help them understand some things
better.
Finally, they asked about using acoustic modem instead of
direct-connect. The reason is a good-one. If they use a direct
connect they have to get permission from the Post Office
(Telecommunications office of the governemnt) for permission
which could make trouble. I personally think that acoustic won't
work with long distance. I told them of my concern. But didn't
want to push it. I think this may fall through because of this
simple problem. Getting permission is difficult and can create
alot of hassles. In fact if they found out how I was using the
phone lines here I would probably get hassled.
I still plan to pursue things with this company, but between
the trouble in China and just the hasslr of getting things done it
could be difficult.

Concerning my Okidata Microline 80. There is a little
spring that sits between the two ribbon spools. When a spool
gets to the end of a ribbon a small eyelet on the ribbon pushes a
slide and causes the ribbon to change direction. The little
spring is on the slide and prevents a gear from contacting the
other ribbon spool. Well, this spring seems to have worn out and
isn't working at all. As a result the spool sits in one spot and
just dries out. I can still use the printer having to manually
change directions, but it isn't much fun. Anyway, if you haven't
figured out what I want... I want the spring. If you can locate
one (or more) please send them to me. This is a fragile spring
so if you can send more than one please do so. I can also write
to Okidata in Japan but thought you might have a better chance.
I think that even a none standard spring might work... which
makes me think of Bob Weekly. Anyway, anything you can do is
appreciated. Just let me know what is happening.
I also made some inquires about a used printer. I might be
able to pick up something for under $200. But that's a last
resort, I can't afford that and don't think you want to either.

----------------------------------------------------------------

His email for publication wherever I want to put it.

Ed was asked many questions through my connections to him un China by modem. Here are some of his answers, reports, and

Harry Stevens, who ran the Discussion software on the Source asked several

To Harry Stevens
Reply to HARRY STEVENS mail sent June 20, 1989 and received in
China on June 26, 1989

June 30, 1989

Dear Mr Stevens,
This is quite lenghty, but I have choosen to make my reply
to you my journal entry. So bare with me. I have answered all
your questions in here.

I'm glad that you are putting some of my text in China Today
and USSR Today.
It is very important that none of the names of the people I
mention are printed. This is a very small school and the very
few people speak English. If any of what I write happens to get
back to China, which I doubt anyway, it would be difficult for
authorities to figure out whom I was talking about. Only about
20 teachers and staff here speak English, although most of the
students do. I also ask that maybe you give me some kind of pen
name. The most that the Government would do is expell me, I'm
sure. But I don't want to give them any help.
Again, the most important thing is to protect the people
here. Please change names of people, even this school, and
myself. I can always leave, the people have to stay here and in
China you can't quit your job and go someplace else.

Anyway, on to your questions.

That is an interesting stat. that more people here are
learning English in China than the US. I can believe it. As far
as I can tell, in the cities at least, every student is taught
English. I also think that the illiteracy rate in the country
side is pretty high, and the government here is trying to change
that.
I am also opposed to English-Only in the US. A form of
Fascism, don't you think. Because of America's prosperity other
people and countries want to learn English so as to work with
America in one way or another. I consider myself very proud and
very fortunate to be an American, now more than ever being in
China for only a few months. I think its time that the US
actively show some respect and learn other countries language.
I keep hearing that some "people" are angry with some other
"people" because they don't understand the first "people" and
vice-versa. One of the simplest ways I think of learning about
another culture is to learn there language. I found that it is
much easier to deal with someone who speaks english than those
who don't. Not just because of the language barrier but people
who speak English tend to understand me better because the
understand my language and this changes there way of thinking. I
can sometimes tell (seldom though) if a Chinese was taught
American English or British English by there actions. Even if it
was a Chinese teacher that had a British or American accent.
This is becoming an information rich world but as I said
above people really don't understand each other across borders
and cultures. Telecom helps strip a lot of visual and verbal
prejudices but more has to be done. Only well paid diplomats or
individuals with an interest in learning actually go out to
understand another culture.
In many places there are programs to help foster this
understanding, such as student and teacher exchanges. This needs
to continue. And other things considered. However, it must be
an on going and an on growing project.

Getting to understand things in China can be difficult. You
asked what is required in the schools. I'm not quite sure at
this time. I can tell you that teaching in China isn't much fun
and it isn't very difficult.
It isn't much fun because teaching doesn't have much
respect. Teachers are very low on the pay scale in China, and
like I said it isn't easy to change you job in China, especially
if you current boss doesn't like you. Then it's next to
impossible.
Well you might say that even though the monetary reward
isn't great the reward for touching so many minds and hearts...
Nope, sorry, not in China. From the very beginning people are
taught to respect there elders and never talk back. You know,
"seen and not heard". Getting students to talk in class is very
difficult. Not just for me being a big, tall foreigner but even
for the Chinese teachers. Pulling the tooth of a wounded female
elephant comes to mind as being easier. I can ask my students if
they understood something and ever so gently, as not to attract
attention, the shake there heads "yes". However, when ask them a
question about what they understood, an answer I often get is
"sorry". Sometimes because they didn't understand or because
they where afraid to answer.
One time I went to the Liaoning Noraml University. Normal
always refers to a school for educating people to become teachers
and people who are already teachers. I went to a class on
Linguistics taught by a Chinese teacher to Chinese teachers in
the English language. Repeatidly, the teacher would ask a
question, wait a polite two seconds and then answer the question
herself. Why? Because she knew that even these adults wouldn't
answer. Oh I would hear mumbling around me, but no student
wanted to become the center of attention and be put on the spot.
Being incorrect in China is also a social no-no.
To complicate things further I teach in a Professional High
School for Foreign Trade. Most of the students here come from
well to do families. The young in China are becoming more and
more spoiled because there are fewer childer in each family;
often only one in each family, following with the governments
attempt at slowing the population growth rate. And finally these
students know that all they have to do is graduate, even barely.
Once they graduate they will be working in the "Vogue" job in
China: Foreign Trade. That's where the money is in China. Even
the worst student at this school who gradutes, and it isn't
difficult, will be paid much better than the teachers and staff
members at this school.

This is grossly simplified and a little exaggerated. But
that's what happens in China; teachers who don't care and
students who are learning not to care.

I have been told repeatidly by the Chinese teachers who
teach English not to work so hard and not care. They say it
won't get me anything but upset and maybe make trouble for
myself. And they are right.
Imagine a place that you worked was operated politiclally.
You had to know the right people, and be friends with some but
not others. Much of the time of the leaders was spent protecting
there job from others who wanted their job. Even if you didn't
worry about getting promoted but just enjoyed doing your work
well; no, this wasn't very smart either. Because you might make
your boss look bad because you can do better than he, so he makes
sure that you don't do that. Arbritary rules can come from no
where.

And in America an employee can depend, usually, having only one
boss. In China you have at least ten people that can tell you
what to do at anytime and you have to listen to all of them.
After awhile people find a hole that they can crawl into and
do just enough to make all the people above them satisfied and
try to be seen as little as possible.
In the US the are many infra-structures to solve problems.
In China there really isn't any. If it doesn't get solved by the
single normal path then it isn't going to be solved. I here and
see other ways that the government tries to install. But they
don't work very well for various reasons. First people don't
think they work; going to them can make trouble for yourself; and
the people who run these problem-solving things often don't care
to hear someone elses problems. They have problems of there own
and they themselves don't want to make waves.

This has become a place of who you know not what you know if
you want to get something.

The young are very enthusiastic, but they soon learn that
the little waves that the make comes back hard. An extreme
example is the massacre in Tien An Men Square on June 4th.
My personal feeling is that the government over centuries
has exploited the parts of the culture to control the people. An
anology to this would be raising a child. When you getting old
enough to have children you might say that you wouldn't do or say
some to your children that your parents did to you. At times I'm
sure you felt that your parents where unfair or maybe
inconsistant. Then you have kids of your own and you do some of
those exact things that you said you wouldn't. Maybe you realize
that it isn't that easy to be consistant and sometimes you just
have to control your child. Well that's what I feel that the
governments of China has been doing for a while.
I have recently heard that the government has just passed
new laws in China to modify the rights of protest and
demonstrations. In other words further eliminating it. When
China became the Peoples Republic of China it promised those
rights to the people because the government before wouldn't allow
it. But the current government is doing just like there
predestors did, control the people the easist way they can
toprotect themselves.
Rasing a child is work. Raising it correctly is hard work.
And the leaders of this government is spening most of its time
just trying stay leaders and protect there fine way of life. And
if you're a leader anywhere, when you fall you go down to the
people that you had to step on to get up. When people fall here,
they fall hard.

So, if you happen to agree with the basic idea of this model
then place that over all of China... Not much gets done, and not
very well. Not because the people are stupid or lazy. NO WAY!
In China it's called survival. When I have talked or worked with
people privately some amazing things get done or discussed.
Where do you think I have developed most of my opinions from.

Please don't misunderstand me or the people here. This is
an excellent culture and a beautiful people. I just feel that
its culture has been bastardized by a few people who, at the
moment, control the military. But what I am learning about is
the human spirit that exits in everyone. Even with all the B.S.
that goes on here (or anywhere) people push through it and in
their own special ways do some amazing things.

Even Deng Xiao Peng and all the others would like to have a
properous China. I see evidence everywhere of what the
government is trying to do to make life better here. It's just
that any leader maybe got there with good intentions but when he
is there he has a better way of life and people want to take that
from him. So much of his time is fortifying his empire. Once
this is done, and only then, does he move on to the purpose of
his job.
Concerning Deng and all the other circle of leaders the 10
or 20 of them. They are all very old and remember the way China
was before the War of Liberation. As far as I know China wasn't
to pleasant. So things have gotten better, much better; but,
these are old men, with a memory of what was like, who are now
no longer in touch with their people, and are working with old
ideas and tired minds.

If you notice I said "he", "him", and "his". Woman do not
play much of a leadership role in China. Both men and woman work
in China. There are no housewives in China. At least none that
I have met or heard of. But just like many other places men say,
even complain, that they have to work so hard. But actually the
woman usually do much more work than the men. They have a full
time job at less pay, the clean and cook, the raise the child.
And seldom complain. Of course you occasionally you hear of the
hen-pecked husband, but not very often.

In my classes there are a few good male students, but very
few. Most of the girls work hard, some very hard. If I was
asked to pick the best of my students it would be 90% of the
girls and 10% of the boys! The sad truth is that the worst boy
student will have a better job then the best girl student. Maybe
the pay will be about the same, but the boys get the better jobs.
When went I on a Senic outing a month ago we stayed at a
carpet factory that made traditional oriental silk rugs. I was
told that the rugs made by men where much more expensive than
those made by women. I asked why. The man laughed and said that
the men are more skillful. His laugh expressed that he knew this
was silly but he knows that he and every man practice this
segretion in China.

Another note on the Culture.
As a fallout of the this "Culture Control" I feel has
happened for such a long time is that the culture hasn't changed
much for a long time. That's why you can find some of the things
you do in China. Because of this control the culture hasn't been
allowed to evolve as it normally would. The evolution is what
has made the US so strong. The US has many diffenrent cultures
and was allowed to grow that culture in any direction that it
wanted. Because of this freedom poeple where (and are) able to
explore many different things; thus always making new discoveries
about so many different things. If you look at Chinese Histroy
some of the greatest inventions where made during times of
cultural and civil freedom; conversly the controlled times
yielded little growth. Don't confuse controlled times with
times of war. Some interesting inventions have been made during
war or because of the threat of war. But people are often given
a wide breadth to freedom to do their research.

July 2, 1989

You implied that the world is "becoming" a global economy.
It already is. An excellent example of this is what is happening
in China right now.
After the Chinese Governments action on June 4 with a
massacre the world reacted. One one the many reactions was
tourists cancelling and not people not coming to China. China is
a poor country and can't afford much sustained economic loss like
this. It has been estimated that in the last few months alone
they have lost over 2 billion (b) dollars! And that's much
needed foreign currency, not just local currency.
This brings me to another point. Congress just passed a
bill that further enhances President Bush's position. Actually
it sounds like it is just imposing more restrictions and
sanctions.
Watching Chinese Television and listening to VOA (Voice of
America) and BBC I am starting to hear what happens when a coutry
is beginning feel pressure. Not public pressure, but more
important to any third world governemnt, economic pressure due to
individuals feelings and concerns. Li Peng is now appearing in a
Western suit. Why? I think he is trying to improve his
appearance to the west. The government is adjusting its casualty
counts. The government via the media is spending a lot of money
trying very hard to show the outside world as well as its own
people that the government acted properly and everything is OK.
This includes excuses and justifications for its actions. I can
even watched regular Chinese TV before there was any trouble and
they show things for the peoples health and saftey.
Even as late as 1970's and anytime before that the Chinese
Government has never cared one bit what other governments
thought. It never had to. China was always independent to the
world. Thousands of years ago China surpassed all others in just
about everything. It would benifit none by going outside its
borders. Doing this would just bring influence it didn't want.
So it could, and did, close its doors. As the millinea passed
the world passed China in many ways except population and now the
government has made a commitment to get itself back up with the
rest of the world.

I don't know if China could ever close its doors again. I
supposed it could but it would be catastrophic if it did. For
one reason or another a lot of people would die.
China also doesn't trust the West. If I were in the
government I wouldn't trust the West. Repeatidly, one Western
nation after another has come to China and taken advantage of
this country. Study up on the Boxer Rebillion or the Shanghai
Wars and maybe it will make since. China didn't invite these
invasions of "good faith" (they always are) but the people came
anyway.
Now you have the US and other Western countries pushing its
threat of economic pressure. I think the US government should
take a stance. But it actively doesn't have to attack China like
it is. The people arounf the world are doing that more passively
and much more powerfully. Tourists aren't coming. Businesses
aren't investing. China can argue with another government
easily, but it can't with a million individual tourists.
The Government of China is slowly learning that the it's
total appearance is important to the individual. This country
has never placed much empisis on the individual.
I agree, for the most part, the sanctions that President
Bush has done. But what China needs now is not further sanctions
but passive explainations of how to deal with its problems.
If all you do is punish a child and give it no way out, no
solutions, that child gets bitter, lies and fights back. What do
you think China will do if all these governments just offer is
criticism and not the help that it needs.

You also asked about what is required in the schools. I
briefly touched on that with some of my feelings above. But my
experience is limited to this school for now and that question
deserves more time than I have now. I will try and address it
later. If I do not reply in reasonable time please ask again.
Living in China can take a lot of time, so I don't always get to
things that I would like.

As for your last question. Would I like to part of a forum
on the source. Yes, very much so. I also think I could get
people like students and teachers to respond to some the
questions that might arise.
My first problem is that I make a very good salary in China,
about 700 Yuan RMB per month. That's about 200 Dollars, US. If
you would like me to partake I will need to be subsidised almost
entierly. The communication you are getting now is through my
father and I cannot expect him to pay for my participation.
There are the obvious concerns for protecting people and
there names and I would have to screen questions sometimes. But
any question would be welcomed and I would try and get answer or
at least an explaination.
Also, my usage of the phone system, telecommunications and a
direct connect modem, is probably illegal. Or could become
illegal very quickly. China is known for its "let's make a rule"
policy. I also don't want to get to high of a profile using
telecom in this environment for various reasons.
So I am interested. I suggest that you recommend a format
that you would like use and a method covering costs and I will
give you my ideas. (It costs me about $6.00 per minute to call
the US, where as for the US to call China it costs $3.30 the
first minute and $.89 every minute after)
Even if everything is worked out my replies my not be as
timely as they could be, essentially do to my lack of time.
Sometimes I can turn around and answer things immediately, but
usually it takes a few days. If I have to get other people
involved then getting questions answered can take a while.
Always remember: this is China, people do things at there own
pace. It took me three weeks for the school to get me a pillow
from a building 15 meters from where I am sitting now; and four
weeks get my phone fixed, and only when they thought I might be
leaving China with all the other foreigners durning the unrest.

All for now...

Ed in China (8) The Chinese Fire Drill

2012-05-16T19:59:37-06:00

The Chinese Reaction to the Wedding

and the last Chapters

To: Dad (via modem)

March 13, 1990 © 21:00

     I guess you would like some more details as to what's been happening.
     Please read this carefully as there is a lot of important information.

     Two weeks ago I said I was getting married.

Two days laterI told you that I got fired. I wasn't really surprised by the action (or reaction), however I was worried that things would get really difficult and I didn't have much time. As a friend said,"Now you'll get a chance to see more of China's government."

A lot of things have happened, but not much has changed.

The school has fired me to basically cover their ass, but they don't seem to have done anything else. Talking to the US Consulate in Shenyang and someother Americans I was getting readyfor a fight. Like I said, though, the school doesn't seem to have done much else.

Because of the action by the school Haning and I will begetting married as soon as possible. The Civil Affairs Office in Dalian performs the cermony every Tuesday and we have all the information and forms and medicals and whatever we need exceptfor one. That is a letter of introduction from Haning's Unit;and her unit it this school.

Typically a unit will screw around until they have covered themselves before they get the letter and in some severe cases they harrass sometimes the foreigner, usually the Chinese or both. The school hasn't done anything yet. But I don't trust them. I've heard "war stories" about foreigners trying to marry a Chinese. So far nothing has happened at all since the school has let me go. I still have a phone, I get my mail and even my newspaper, students are still able to talk to me and don't seem to know what's going on. The school hasn't said anything to her and other then gossip, no one has caused any trouble (yet...). But I still don't trust them.

If things did get touchy then I have the consulate and pieces of information that are potentially really damaging to the school. But that's only at last resort. I think they know it's in their interest to do this is quiet as possible. So for nowI'm sitting back pretty quietly.

My simple feeling is that we will get the letter from the school in a few days or so. BUT, I'm not planning on it and I am making other plans if they screw around or try to make trouble.

So I have gone all over Dalian and back up to Shenyang to the Consulate to get things taken care of. But the most important thing, the letter of introduction from this school, has yet to come. Like I said, a lot has happened, but not much has changed.

I have contacted the consulate and had to go back there because I needed another offical letter. I think that they wil lbe quite supportive. In fact they are another story in themselves. Also the American that I mentioned before, Bill Young (aka "Peg Leg"), from McDonnell Douglas (MDC) China is being really helpful.

My current position.

I feel that it is important that I remain in Northeast China until we both leave for the US together. My presence gives a form of protection that she may need. So now I am trying to find a way to do that.

My status is both good and bad.

     I have:
          $600 in the bank in the US;
          Almost $300 (US) here;
          About 1500 yuan RMB;
          My truck worth $2000 to $3500;
          I should receive $477 on Federal and State Income Tax.

So I have money, but not big $$$. The truck forms a buffer if I have a problem.

I hope that we will be married in within few weeks. Once we are married it should take three to six months to get a US visa. Within that time she should get her passport. These time lines are estimates on average. But things can always go wrong.

So I am trying to get two things. A place to live and a job to make living expenses in China. Here are my options from least favored to most favored:

1) I could return to the US on or about April 5th with theAirline ticket that they give me. (If I remain in China I don'tknow or think that they will give me the Airline ticket to do with as I please.)

2) I could live in her families home, if possible teach English part time.

3) Find a part time teaching job that pays enough to live in a foreign guest house at a school. A foreign guest house around here goes for about $6.50 a day, that's pretty expensive when a part time job might not even be able to cover this. There is a school in Dalian that I heard was looking for a part time teacher, but I'm not sure if that's correct and if the school I'm at now will blacklist me or if other schools care about that.

4) Find a full time teaching job that gives me a place to stay. Shenyang Teachers College said that they will come to visit me. Again, if the school I'm at now doesn't blacklist me then I thinkI have a good chance at that job. (I should know in a few days.)

5) I could study Chinese language at a school in Dalian. This is what I would like to do the most, but it is expensive. They want$700 (US) for four months of study and $3 (US) per day ofresidence and another $3 for food. I would like to do this so Icould learn the basics so I could talk to Haning in her language,although her English is quite good and we don't have any problem talking to each other. But that would be about $1400 to $1500 for that time; unless I want to sell my truck (if you haven't sold it already and I don't really want to) then I can't afford it. But, if I can't find any place to stay then I can stay their they want US dollars, they don't care about much else about anyone's past!

This last one is sort of a dream, but an expensive one. If I get back into a corner it is an option, we have talked about me living at her home and studying that would knock as much as halfoff the costs. Number 4 is actually the best of choices, it keeps me in China, gives me a place to stay and brings in some money. So now I got to find a job!

We also have to pay for a trip to south China, Guangzhou,for her Visa interview and then two airline tickets back to theUSA. We think that China Airlines will let her pay in RMB (localcurrency). If that is so then she has enough money to buy her own airline ticket. If I keep the US dollars I have now and Iget the tax refunds I am expecting then I should be able to buymy own ticket with no problem either.

Neither one of us are poor now, but we are trying to plan for the costs later. In fact, because the school won't allow me to have anyone stay overnight and we are trying to watch our money and can't afford a hotel room, we aren't even sure if we will be able to spend our wedding night together!

    I suppose someday that this will all seem really romantic. (Actually, now it is a little romantic, and a lot more interesting than romantic.)

     So, if you haven't sold the truck yet then hold off on that for a while. But if money gets too tight then I might ask you to continue to try to sell it. I paid $2000 for it and you shouldbe able to get that pretty easily if I needed money quickly. The engine still has low miles, a new transmission(s), and mag wheelsthat I feel it's worth $3000 to $3500. But, I don't want to have to replace it if I come back to the US.

     My plan for the future is try to get a full time teachingjob in Shenyang or Dalian. That gets me some income and a placeto live. Next, try to keep the airline ticket that this school wants to give me to leave China, but they may balk in giving it too me if they think I'm not leaving China.

After that, we wait for passports and visas to come and probably start mailing via sea mail some of our stuff that isn't important but want to have in the US.

If everything goes well then we should be coming to the US in three or so months if I don't get a job or early July if I doget a teaching job.

     I asked mom about living in the cottage. Is that possible?

     I'm trying to do this without asking to borrowing any money from you or anyone. We're trying the best we can.

=================

     Other things.
     I received mom's package today. Thanks. I really enjoyed it. Please tell mom that it is ok to open my official mail, I won't call the fed's on her. I would like her to check it first. Although my tax stuff arrived here with no problems and is actually helpful, I don't think those things should get sent toChina for fear they might get lost in the mail.
     Taxes! I am mailing you an envelop with my taxes filled out, please forward them to Federal Government and Colorado Government. I didn't want to use the official envelops to draw special attention. If you don't receive them before the taxdeadline, April 15th, then file for an extension with an explanation of my situation. I should be getting $367 fromfederal IRS and $110 from the state. That helps!
     Please let me know when you recive that letter, it will putme at ease.

     I sent a letter last week that was a one liner to see ifmail was still getting through, I had no idea if my situation was bad or not. So ignore the letter, just me know if that one get sthrough also.

     I will try to include a short biography of Haning so you can know who I'm gonna marry. That would be nice, huh?
     I will also have a piece about that virus vaccination that Imentioned before. I understood what you meant about everyone is selling virus vaccinations, but maybe this one might be interesting. Do what ever you want and let me know and I'll send the message along.

     By the way, I met another American Teacher in Dalian and we got to talking. His father was a 1950 West Pointer how went to Korea directly. His name was J.J. Baughn. I'm not sure of the spelling on the last name. Small world though isn't it. Does that name remind you of anyone? My friend, his son, is called Mark and grew up in Providence Rhode Island.

     I received an amazing compliment the other day. The MDCengineer, Bill Young, asked me to help him in his writing. He said that I was a better writer then he was. Can you imagine anyone asking me to write for them!Üj_ÜŒ
     I guess that's about it for now. If you read this and it still doesn't answer your questions then you can give me a callback. I'm just spending all my effort to get married now! end of message

(Now the below account was first posted on Metanet's Web site in Virginia. To enlighten those who use that service. They had been fascinated to follow son Ed's adventures in China, from the time he landed there and immediately was confronted by the revolt of the students in Tienaman Square. Copied here}

THE CHINESE SOAP OPERA CONTINUES

As we last modemed into Dalian, China, Xiao Ed was in a
precarious position trying to marry Zhou Haning, a beautiful
Chinese girl who teaches English at the Liaoning Foreign Trade
School, over the bureaucratic obstacles being put in his way
by officials, with his visa period running out and his position
getting ever more precarious in that still-dangerous country.
For without an official reason to be in country he would have
to leave by April 5th, and perhaps be separated from his true
love forever.

And we all were left hanging over the fate of young Bin Ai, the
14 year Chinese boy left stranded when his parents became persona
non-grata back in China after speaking out in America while on tourist visas
in support of the Tienaman Square, and they could not return.
With electronic derring-do, his uncle in the United States
desperately called on the Cowboy Cursor (me)to send delicate,
essentially uninterceptable, modem messages to Xiao Ed to secure
his help in getting the boy out through Shenyang so he could
join his parents before he could never leave in the face of
the evermore tightening screws of the Chinese government.

Well, guess what? Ed came through with the Consulate interviewing Bin Ai’s grandmother, agreeing he could travel to the US to join his Chinese parents in Colorado!

In this episode, a whole series of events occurred in close
proximity to each other, laying down the basis for yet other,
future exiting events in this exiting true tale of

       >>>>>>>>>>> CHINA BY CURSOR <<<<<<<<<<<<<<

             The Tall Boy with the Dark Eyes

Late at night on March 21st, just two nights ago, a United
Airliner set down on Colorado Springs Municipal Airport, and
a lot of people breathed a huge sigh of relief.

For aboard was Ligou Ai, the brother of the parents of Bin Ai,
who risked going back into China to bring out Bin Ai and his
grandparents who had proper visas to come to America permanently.

After receiving a 'last phone call' from Ed in China, I went
to the Yen Ching II restaurant to see for myself if the boy was
safely in the United States, before announcing it.

When I got there the lovely sister of Ligou Ai, who manages the
fine large restaurant met me with a huge smile. She recognized
the Stetson as I walked through the door. She said "Do you want
to see Bin Ai?" I said "Absolutely". And we went back into the
kitchen where standing at a sink, water up to his forearms,
washing dishes as any dutiful son should be doing, and only
one day after coming out of his harrowing isolation in China
was the tallest, most handsome young Chinese youth I could
ever imagine. Rich black hair over a smooth young face, but
with a dignity and calm beyond his years that took me aback, not
understanding a word being said in English, he smiled when - in
Chinese - they told him I was one part of the 'modem lifeline'
and the father of Xiao Ed who got him out.

I met his parents who were ecstatic over having their son safely
with them in the great embrace of America.

All I could say was "What a fine, fine boy." I don't know what
I expected, a much shorter, smaller Han Chinese boy I guess, but
seeing his tall father I realized I was looking at a true
descendant of those tall, dignified, northern Chinese whose
genetic roots went back thousands of years, who never, through
the wars and domination of first the Russians, then the Japanese
Germans, British, and Han Chinese ever lost their identity and
spirit.

We then shook hands all around, and I asked what grade level he
would be in, and was answered "Junior High School".

So, recovering from my emotional meeting with this handsome
Chinese lad who will begin a life in America that will change
his life, and those of his distant relatives back in Shenyang
Province forever, and from his striking handsome appearance
that just made me realize I was looking at the world's youth,
I sternly lectured his parents that, seeing it was a personal
computer in the hands of a boy named Ed, who first learned in
Junior High the skills that led to Bin Ai's rescue, that above
all they must insure that he learns the art of computers and
telecommunications just as surely as he was taught the ancient
Chinese arts. So that he might help his own people break out
of their long difficult past.

They nodded vigorously when what I said was translated into
Chinese, the boy looked at me with his beautiful dark eyes
without changing expression, sensing, perhaps, that this
big American with the strange hat meant what he said, and
that somehow he would have something to do with his education
in computers...

                       The Plug is Pulled

So on the very day, that modem-rescued Bin Ai, completed his
journey from Chinese purgatory, Ed made his last call from
the ancient Chinese telephone in his room. And the plug was
pulled.

For in the morning he would be moving out of his rooms at the
Foreign Trade School. And if all went well he would be married
on Saturday, the 24th, in a civil ceremony, to Zhou Haning,
and would stay at the house of her parents in Dalian for two
days. Then they would travel as quickly as possible to Shenyang
to start the 3-6 months process of getting her immigration
papers started at the American Consulate.

But with only 12 days to go until, on his 'teaching' visa at
the Foreign Trade school, which was terminated for the audacity
of marrying a Chinese national and therefore being such a bad
'moral example' before the brain-washed students at the school,
(The sympathetic US Consulate smiled and said something about
their penchant for 'Cultural purity' - a hangover from the
Cultural Revolution) resourceful Ed had covered lots of bases.
Take a $900 course in Chinese at the Dalian Foreign Language
Institute and thereby get a student visa? Fly out to Hong Kong
where Assistant Editor of the Asia Electronic Journal, Russ
Arensman - who followed the "Ed in China" story by modem while
he was a high-tech reporter in the US - offered Ed a place
to stay while getting a tourist visa to go back in? (apartments
cost $1,500 a month up in Hong Kong).

Or, to accept a position he had been offered a few months
before by the Head of the Electrical Engineering Department at
the University of Sichuan in Chengdu China (scene of major
outbreaks during the June protests), 1,200 miles away in western
China, right up against the eastern end of the Himalyas an
Tibet. To perform as an Engineer and set up a new (to China) Sun Workstation
at the University, and establish a telecommunications link
with another university in Chongquing, 500 km away to the
south east. A job that could take 6 months. Separated from
his new wife after only a few days. But buying the time needed
for the wheels of government to grind out her permit to enter
the US and return with world traveller Xiao Ed to Old Colorado
City. And accepting a position which was initially itself
arranged by modem through the Well, in California.

During this last direct-call exchange this morning, Ed had
accepted the Chengdu position, and would be pulling the
plug on his phone in Dalian in a few hours. So a period of
modem and voice silence is about to descend on our fragile
link to the western wanderer in heart of the Middle Kingdom.

So as we wait with apprehension over that still uncertain and
alien country of 1 billion people under a repressive regime
for news of the actual marriage of Ed Hughes and Zhou Haning,
and actual arrival in an unsettled city high on the shoulder
of the Himalayas, next to Tibet, close by India, to do very
high tech things, we can but contemplate the first meeting
with the in-laws - a US retired Army Colonel who fought the
Chinese Army on the banks of the Yalu River 40 years ago,
and a retired Chinese Army doctor who treated the wounded on
the other side of in that bitter forgotten winter war, while
young Ligou Ai, watched wide-eyed from the doorway of a
thatched roof Chinese home very near the battlefield, and
neither Zhou Haning nor Edward Hughes destined to meet by
modem were even born.

I have a feeling this soap opera and continuation of Terry
and the Pirates is not over.

And expect the next modem tone to come out of Tibet when
we all fervently hope we will meet the cast of Cursor
Characters again, in good spirits and good health. And
wonder at what the little chips have wrought.

Meanwhile there will be a big celebration at the Yeng Ching II
Restaurant next week. And all who have followed this
adventure by modem are invited to attend.

We can only wonder what young Bin Ai will make of these
people who answer the call of the modem tone....

Ed in China (9) His Final Adventures

2012-05-19T20:08:02-06:00

TYPICAL TRAVEL IN CHINA

Brief excerpts of a trip to Shenyang last week

(By Ed Hughes, via Modem)

Two days before I wanted to travel I went to the train

station to get information and perhaps buy some tickets. Through

a friend who was translating, I talked to three different people.

The first group, who looked a little like police men or train

station security, said that there was an express train every

morning but I had to buy tickets at another train station in the

city.

To make sure of things we went and talked the lady in the

information booth. She said that there was an express train

every morning, how tickets for a soft seat should be bought at

this train station and they cost 43 yuan.

Then I went to the booth that sells the tickets. That women

said that this was the correct booth, but tickets are only sold a

day in advance. When we inquired about the price she said that

they cost 28 yuan.

Three different people each with a slightly different story.

{The next day buying tickets was fun. I started by getting

at the end of a loosely formed line of about 15 people. After

standing there about a half an hour there still seemed to be

fifteen people in it even though people where coming and going.

As I got closer to the booth I got the idea that tickets

were selling out because the pushing and shoving started and got

more rough as time went on.

As I was getting to the window this one old man was very

sure he wasn't going to wait in line and wanted his ticket next.

I found myself sandwiched between several people. I was grasping

firmly to the teller cage to ensure that I didn't shoved away.

I had the idea that I didn't want the old man to snuff in

front of me. But he was to quick and he had his hat full of

money through the window when the guy in front of me squeezed his

way out. In fact the guy behind me was even quicker and he had

his hand in there, too.

I was at my limit for patience (which isn't much anyway) and

I firmly grabbed the arm of the man behind me and yanked it out

of the window. Because I was a foreigner, I looked angry,

grasped him firmly, or whatever, he quickly pulled his hand away

and said, "Ming bei! Ming bei." Which means, "I understand."

(The literal translation is "see white", just like in English "I

see clearly")

I was next and my friend asked for my ticket. With ticket

in hand I then fought my way out of the small crowd.

The train ride was pretty smooth and I had a typical, but a

little bit interesting experience. I was talking to a Chinese

business man when two others came over. The pair only wanted to

practice their English. Actually, one could speak basic

sentences Ok. Nothing complcated, but he got his point across.

The other one was just beginning to learn gramma and

pronunciation.

Not after long that the last man grabbed his English book

and I was giving an English lesson on the train.

Often people want to practice their English, but after the

intial basic questions the conversation dies. Unless I keep

talking and asking questionsthen everything gets quiet. So

teaching a isn't all that bad to do something on the train.

When I arrived in Shenyang I was accompanied by a Chinese that

I had met the day earlier at the Shenyang Medical Univeristy.

Apparently this is a key University in China, but you wouldn't

know by the way they pay foreign teachers.

Exasperated Ed

- - - - -

XIAO ED IN CHENGDU, CHINA

(From me, father to Ed)

Whew! Finally heard from son Ed again, who was last heard from

almost a month ago trying to marry a Chinese girl in Dalian, get

an extension to his visa to insure she can leave the country,

pulling the plug on his modem phone - the slender link to the

outside that became his information life-line to the US - and

then disappearing into the interior of China for yet another

venture in the Middle Kingdom.

(Chengdu is in west central China, the last large city

of the central plains, on the road to Lhasa, Tibet.)

His communication had to come by mail this time (done on his

laptop and printed on his ancient Microline) because he does

not have a phone in his room. (But it looks like we will be

connected again in due course). So it was a nice 6 page

letter, some extracts of which are below:

-------------------------------------

April 7th, 1990

"So I am working in Chengdu. The work seems like it will be

interesting and varied. I work in their computer center 4

days a week, and teach a 2 hour class once a week on any

computer subject I want to."

"The first thing they want me to work on is a speech recognition

and speech synthesis program. They have one program which

can understand simple English sentences and translate them

into Chinese. But they are working on Chinese recognition and

synthesis now. They want me to assist in converting FORTRAN

to C and related engineering tasks.

The SUN workstation they have is a 3/50."

"...housing. They gave me a large, almost huge, place. I am

on the fourth of four floors that overlooks a halfway decent

compound which I can see from two balconies. I have a large

living/dining room, a kitchen, a bathroom with hot water almost

always! And a good sized bedroom. It is fully carpeted, and

wallpapered and has comfortable furniture. The place has a

homey feel to it. Somewhat like living in an older hotel in

the US."

"The weather is ten degrees (C) warmer than Dalian. Which

suits me fine and the city is really green compared to that

of northeast China at this time."

"The next nice feature about this place is that it looks like

the China I expected to come to see a year ago. Dalian had

a lot of Russian influence. It didn't seem much like a Chinese

city I expected. Chengdu has a two-thousand year history and

I have been told that it has been relatively untouched by the

West and modern things as other cities in China have."

"...once Ha Ning gets her paper work completed she will be

coming to Chengdu...I plan to be returning to the US with

Ha Ning between October and December..."

--------

Then he discusses connecting up by modem. Looks like that

will be possible in due course, from Xu Tingwei's office.

And says "This letter may have a 007 problem." To make our

mail letters clean and straightforward.

And he has met a few Americans, some English, Germans,

Danish, and Australian and an Italian in just the first

few days he was there.

--------

And for his doting parents he gives much more details about

his bride, Ha Ning.

Ha Ning, 'a foot shorter' than he (6' 4") Ed, was the

youngest of 4 daughters, called by her family "Si'er" or

'number four daughter.' Her name came from the ice houses

of Harbin (Ha) and Liaoning province where she was born

(Ning).

With tongue in cheek Ed says that if we named him that

way he would be called "Fort-Kansas." "Glad you didn't"

says he.

She graduated from Dalian University and has two years of

toward an advanced degree. That she doesn't talk about

herself much, but she always came in first place at

language competition. [Great! Smart grandchildren to come!]

Both of whose parents, it turns out

are retired Red Army (PLA) doctors. Dr. Zhou having been a

bone surgeon and hospital director, respected enough that

he did not get put down during the Cultural Revolution.

That he met her two days after he arrived in China. She

is 'very shy'. But during the Tiammanen Square turmoil, she

would always come through with a practical suggestion, while

many other well meaning Chinese friends would try, but he

ended up with many "Not Chinese - Not American" situations.

And though she knew nothing about electronics, when he

went to the hardware stores of Dalian to solve his 110

volt transformer and electrical parts problems, she

quickly helped, and suggested alternatives.

And later they often went to the beach and ate oranges,

crackers and 'baozi' a traditional Chinese food she prepared.

And, to Ed mother, he said about Ha Ning "She has begun to

play the piano, and every once in a while I get a firm but

pleasant demand to stand-up straight. Which Mom will like"

-------

So a new Chapter of 'Xiao Ed and Ha Ning in China' is about

to open.

- - - - -

79:26) Lisa Carlson 18-APR-90 21:58

This is such a treat to get to be part of your family like this ... I

can't wait til someday we can show Ha Ning (and Ed of course) the

sights of Washington, D.C!

- - - - -

79:27) Frank Burns 19-APR-90 2:01

( SO good to read this. Thanks, Dave. )

- - - - -

79:28) Bill Robinson 19-APR-90 18:53

Oh, I really like the "007" problem. So subtle! Probably snuck right by

those Chinese snoops. Unless they saw "The Living Daylights".

So what does "almost married" mean? Did I miss something scrolling by at

2400? Are they engaged or is she joining him later?

- - - - -

79:29) Dave Hughes 19-APR-90 21:12

No, they are indeed married. She just has to stay in Dalian until

her travelling papers are approved, and before she can imigrate

to the US. He expects her to join him in his Chinese

'honeymoon suite' within a month.

- - - - -

79:30) Gordon Cook 19-APR-90 21:13

Within a month? Where?

- - - - -

79:31) Dave Hughes 19-APR-90 21:17

Hey, folks RTP.

1. Ed in in Chendu

2. Ha Ning is in Dalian

3. She will join him

4. His description of his living quarters makes it fit - in China -

to be a honeymoon hidaway. (based on his previous correspondence

the apartment he has would normally accomodate a family of

from 5 to 7)

- - - - -

79:32) Gordon Cook 19-APR-90 21:25

Laugh! Yeah I finally did scroll back and read ALL the text. Was about

to delete, response 30.

- - - - -

79:33) Bill Robinson 20-APR-90 21:25

- - - - -

79:34) Dave Hughes 05-MAY-90 5:04

We (my wandering son) and I are getting so good at this Oriental

Modem Express one could get pretty cocky.

We just sucessfully completed a pair of transfers from here to

Chengdu, China which WORKED THE VERY FIRST TIME with no lost

motion, to a strange telephone number way out there on the

road to Lhasa in the interior of China. 46k of text exchanged,

a brief voice discussion (his brother even got a chance to say

hello) arranging the next time, a kermit run with about 20

retries and another one with about 4, a check for arc file

integrity and all in 18 minutes flat from the time I started

dialing. All in one call.

And Xiao Ed was standing in a downtown Chendu technology

business, with a bunch of Chinese engineers watching him

(the way they justified using the voice phone for such

'questionable' activities), hooked up to a strange phone

by alligator clips, and trying to explain to them what

he was doing while he did it. The voice quality seemed

scratchy when we talked briefly, so we didn't think it

would work well.

But it did. And, after reading what he sent, it really helped

his credibility for it to work that smoothly. I mean telecom

as a demo NEVER works right the first time. Right?

We are getting good at it though.

Next Sunday we will try it through a Chinese operator and

switchboard. That promises to be fun.

I will share some of his journal entries tomorrow after I

get some sleep. He is in a very techie place...

- - - - -

79:35) Frank Burns 05-MAY-90 8:39

Extraordinary.

You really have to write a book, Dave.

- - - - -

79:36) Dave Hughes 05-MAY-90 15:19

No Frank. I am just a singer of Ascii Songs. And here they are.

If someone wants to collect them fine. Not me. I sometimes

think I must be like a Kentucky folk-guitar plucker. Just playing

the songs that come to mind. And let the university professors

collect the stuff if they want.

Besides, it is a real betrayal of my online art, to put it on

paper.

"Oh you never are alone, when you hear that modem tone"

"Keep loggin on"

(somebody else write the music)

- - - - -

79:37) Dave Hughes 06-MAY-90 0:44

We just received a beautiful letter from Ha Ning - in equisite

handwriting and in excellent English, as she pays her first

'respects' to her new in-laws. She told us something we did not

know - that Chengdu was the ancient capital of China.

In the 38k file he sent, he made it clear that he is connected

to a phone in a computer company 'unit' in Chengdu, run by

the director of the university computer center. They are all

uncertain about using the phone for telecommunications, so

to 'justify' it the director set it up as a technical

demonstration for Chinese engineer/programmers, all of whom

were looking over his shoulder as we linked up via his tiny

laptop Toshiba, an external Touchbase modem, supplied with

two alligator clips to attach to the line.

Because of this and the necessity for him, at this early stage

in Chengdu to determine the 'Chinese office politics' before

risking too much, he has limited his reports to more or less

'safe' subjects.

Below are some extracts of last night's

session

- - - - -

79:38) Dave Hughes 06-MAY-90 0:45

REPORTS FROM CHENGDU, CHINA

...telecommunications. I think he [director] is interested

in doing this, but he isn't going to stick his neck out too

far and he's gonna go through proper channels to get permission.

Otherwise, he said, his office could get fined. But he did say

that I could use his phone for now and if his company gets fined,

then it get's fined.

He is going to make this telecom into a demonstartion for

some of the engineers and workers at his company. Perhaps as

many as ten to twenty...

... I think he wants to do this and listens when I talk about

and wants my to teach the telecom concepts...

... [his] company is interesting. It is sponsored by three

"Work Units". Before describing his company, let me give you

some background on what a "Unit" is in China.

In China a Unit is anything that a person works for or lives

under. In other words, in the city everyone has one unit. Most

people have a work unit where they work. Such as a Company, a

government store, a factory, the Computer center at Sichuan U. is

a unit. The Unit basically has everything to do with your life.

When ever you want to do anything you have to go through your

unit to get permission or a letter or whatever. If you don't

work then you have a non-work unit in your comunity or

a community unit. If you'er retired then you have a unit that

controls the retirement community...

So in the US you have a government department or a

company or business. In China you have Units which are part of

the whole governemnt structure. Then you have a small part of

the city population that that does business for themselves.

If a man and woman are married, then the man's unit usually

supplies the housing for the couple, but not always. Things

being really politically divided, units don't really cooperate

with each other unless there is some kind of mutual benefit or

personal connection at a high level of some kind. In other words

it can get pretty complicated and really difficult to get things

done between units.

Now I work for the Sichaun U Computer Center. The center

itself I don't believe is a unit, I think it falls under the

University. But, because the school is so large the Center (like

other parts of the Univ) can take on a status of unit when doing

work outside of the school community.

Hence Mr [X] is a vice-leader of the Computer Center, but he

is the leader of the Chengdu Computer Technolgy Institute (CCTI).

The Institute is a joint effort from the Sichuan U Computer Center

(SUCC), the Railway Unit of Chengdu (I can't remember it's proper

name), and another Unit. The purpose of the institute is to give

technical support for SUCC, to the Railway Unit, develop

marketable technology and to actual market those things as well

as computers themselves.

They have a bunch of IBM 386 clones from all over the place:

AST's from the US, Dragon's from Taiwan, others from Japan,

and Hong Kong. They sell disk drives and disks and

boards. Part of the function of the Institute is also to

generate income for some of these other units. This seems to be

common for some State Units. To have a side business to generate

some additional income.

- - - - -

79:39) Dave Hughes 06-MAY-90 0:47

(cont)

These "sub-units" or "joint-units" may come under the

auspicies of a state controlled unit, but the sub-units seem to

operate almost as if they were private, although they're not.

The project I'm working on is also a joint effort of

different departments at SUCC and with other units.

When I asked a guy in my office to make me an organizational

Chart of SUCC and the project I'm working on he got very

perplexed. I tried to draw the chart placing a person in one box

of responsiblity. This very quickly fell apart.

This being China, some people are working on more then one

project and leaders have different levels of responsiblity

according to what part of the unit, project, or joint-unit you

are talking about. Essentially a lot of people have multiple jobs.

Sometimes it even seems that in one situation a Leader A has

authority of Leader B. But given another project or unit or

whatever, Leader B has authority over Leader B. At least that's

how it would appear on an Organization chart. But in actuality,

internal politics has much more to say then any organization chart.

One thing that the CCTI developed and is producing is a sort

of modem/LAN. These are modem-like units that convert digital to

analog from a computers comm port and then transmits the data via

hard wire up to 5 km at 0 to 9600 baud. I kind of wondered if

these could be converted to a telephone modem, but I doubt it and

doubt even more if there's an interest.

I was also posed an interesting concept the other day. When

you do voice recognition that might be used to finger people for

some government function [agency?]. The guy didn't know

anything specific he was just being a devils advocate, which I

actual had considered. It really is plausible. It comes down

to determining where the work I'm doing is going, and if it is

something I morally agree with.

An additional note to make all this sound a little ironic.

I will be doing this first transmission at least in front of an

audience. I hope you gave me something that I can unpack and

show everyone. On following transmissions if you could put at

the beginning of your letters to me the names of files that are

safe to demonstrate. Or put a suffix like "xxx.SF" to let me

know I can use this.

Ed in China

- - - - -

79:40) Dave Hughes 06-MAY-90 0:51

In a whole series of pieces Xiao Ed proceeds to give me detailed

instructions on how to visit him in Chengdu! 'Fly to Hong Kong,

stay with Russ Arnesman [who was a technical reporter here in

the Springs, now an editor of a Far East Technical News],

train to Guangzhou, plane to Chengdu, car to University, bike

from there...'

tempting

- - - - -

79:41) Nancy Stefanik 06-MAY-90 10:19

thanks Dave - sure is interesting to follow this saga...

- - - - -

79:42) Gordon Cook 06-MAY-90 22:36

Hot dawg dave...again you brighten my eveneing. Now to introduce you to

the folk at Bell Atlantic!

- - - - -

79:43) Dave Hughes 07-MAY-90 0:49

Only $1,200 round trip to Hong Kong...

- - - - -

79:44) Gordon Cook 07-MAY-90 21:51

hmm .so the challenge....could you log on to the metanetwork from Chengdu?

- - - - -

79:45) Dave Hughes 07-MAY-90 23:15

Only if Scott programmed his modems so, when I called COLLECT,

it would answer 'Yes' when the Chinese operator asks will he

accept the charges. :-)

Actually I think I could figure out a way, using call forwarding.

But it ain't cheap. $11.83 for the first 3 mintues, $1.48 a

minute therafter. Thats $95 an hour phone only. (PC Pursuit is

only $1 an hour)

I'll figure out something. Just as there ain't no horse that

can't be broke, there ain't no modem that can't be called.

- - - - -

79:46) Scott Burns 08-MAY-90 8:00

Hmm, maybe I could make a macro...

- - - - -

79:47) Dave Hughes 13-MAY-90 13:10

Well, don't try to do a data transfer to your friends

in China through their ancient switchboards and capacity for

snooping. Xiao Ed had me try to call to the Sichuan University

main number, where a Chinese operator who doesn't speak English

answers 'Wei?', then I say 'AMERICA - CALL - EDWARD HUGHES' and

she rings an extension in the living quarters. Twice Ed picked

up voice, and we talked about 30 seconds when the voice ability

just stopped. Once we could even hear ringing in the background

which I interpreted as her trying to connect some secret service

to the line, but with the equipment so poor, that it lost the

capacity to carry the signal when the snoop picked up.

So $12 later we were left alone, but when we tried to

go online, the carriers just wouldn't grab, though my modem

tried for 30 seconds in response to his answer tone. Circuits

just too attenuated through all those connections and what

sounded like a 1930's style switchboard. We did not try 300

baud.

We had agreed in advance to go back to the direct dial

next week at a downtown computer firm, which worked two weeks

ago. So no Ascii news from Chengdu this week!

And in our brief voice conversation before we tried

to hand off the signals to our modems, he confirmed that

his bride Ha Ning tried to send us some pictures of them in

her letter to us, but they were removed by some Chinese postal

bureaucrat before the letter left China.

So for the first time in the 15 months since he has

been there he said with some irritation "I'm getting tired of

this country." Ever-optimistic and resouceful 'can-do' Ed is

wearying of the bottomless pit of Chinese bureaucracy and

social control.

I am sure he will really appreciate the good old

U.S. of A when he returns with her in the fall.

Yesterday while driving his pickup truck across town

to exercise it (among other things, he asked us to maintain his

vehicle while he was gone), it occurred to me he will teach

tiny Ha Ning how to drive. But that truck, in the fashion of

many young guys sits very high, has large tires, is quite a

handful, and to a small Chinese lass who has never driven

anything might be a terrifying experience. Maybe he will have

to buy a small Japanese import.

Ah, modern international life!

- - - - -

79:48) Dave Hughes 19-MAY-90 12:32

Contact made again at 2:00 AM my time, 5:00 PM Chengdu time, as

Xiao Ed answered the phone after only 6 attempts by me to ring through

the puzzle which is the Chinese Phone system.

So we were able to exchange 20k archived in only about 6 minutes. The

minute he picked up the phone - which was in a downtown computer

office in Chengdu - he said he had to put us on a speaker phone,

which echoed so badly I thought, once again, it would disrupt the

transfer. But it didn't.

The best news was that Ha Ning is there with him, finally having

gotton through the paperwork jungle of Dalian.

He was obviously constrained from sending much commentary on

the general political scene, so his communications was about

everything but that.

He related the two weeks when he and Ha Ning had to live at

her parents house in Dalian - with a 3 year old grandaughter

whom he said was such a bundle of energy and smart she was

a pain, and led Ed to ask whether *he* was a monster at 3,

and gave himpause as to whether he wanted children. So *that*

discussion has started in their international family.

And he sent along two short messages from a woman teacher

there whose relatives are on Bitnet in the US, askign that

I foward them over the net to addresses she gave - which

appear to be good addresses.

Then he reported that his boss, head of the Computer Center

was interested if we could export some software such as

wordprocessing, speech recognition, and telecom 'stuff'

for the SunWorkstation he - Ed - works on all day now.

So who knows? Maybe Old Colorado City Communications

can sell *something* to China to defray my period calls

there over the past year.

Finally he asked:

One last thing. Does anyone know the words to the song The

Great Waltz? The first few lines start:

One day when we were young remember that morning in May

you told me you love me when we were young one day.

You told me you love me and held me close to your

heart.

This isn't imprtant at all, but a nice guy I met in Dalian a few

months ago asked me for the words to the song. If you know it or

somebody you does fine. Otherwise, don't sweat it.

So the China Chit-Chat continues!

- - - - -

79:49) Frank Burns, MDG 19-MAY-90 14:31

Sure good to know of another successful contact.

- - - - -

79:50) Dave Hughes 19-MAY-90 16:49

He also said that Ha Ning, his bride, is interested in writing about

China. And beleive you me, from the paper letters she has written

us in English, she can handle the English language as well, perhaps

better than he can!

Now that they are together, and alone in their honeymoon suite

at Sechuan University in Chengdu, China, he says he thinks she will

pick up writing on his Toshiba computer pretty quickly.

So we may get the treat before they leave for the US in the fall,

of some stories by a Chinese girl, right from China!

How about "Growing Up in China" for starters? (my suggestion,

to avoid political sensitivities until they are safely both

in the US, and yet a topic *none* of us knows much about!

- - - - -

79:51) Dave Hughes 19-MAY-90 16:51

Now that we know where Ha Ning will be for the next 4 months or

so, the time has come to write her directly, and open up a dialogue

to a family from a far away culture...[A

- - - - -

79:52) Jim Rutt 19-MAY-90 18:27

How does Ed deal with living in the belly of a gangster

state like China? It must be real weird to have your life

intrusted to the hands of some of the great mass murderers of

all time.

- - - - -

79:53) Dave Hughes 19-MAY-90 21:02

He is uncomfortable with it -but sees it as a challenge to function

in that society, learning from Chinese how to be -- Chinese.

Its amazing how he has gotton most everything he set out to

get there, in the face of lots of obstacles put in his way

by buracratic-fearful minor officials.

- - - - -

79:54) Dave Hughes 19-MAY-90 21:03

Ok, worldly wise. What is the way *we* (my wife and I) should

deal with the parents of our new daughter-in-law?

- - - - -

79:55) Frank Burns, MDG 19-MAY-90 23:09

Now _that_, Dave, is a profoundly complex question.

It would be easy to say platitudinous obviousnesses... like "with

grace" etc.

But... you really are facing some tough issues here. Do they understand

English enough to grasp subtleties ?

- - - - -

79:56) Doug Carmichael 20-MAY-90 12:34

"deal with"? what's the issue? They are coming to visit too? I'd start

with Ha Ning, what does she want to write, and then, what would she like

for her parents?

- - - - -

79:57) Dave Hughes 20-MAY-90 13:02

Issue? 2,000 years of Chinese history, and the Middle Kingdom.

200 of American history. And the center of the Electronic Universe.

Sooner or later directly, not throuh Ha Ning.

- - - - -

79:58) Gordon Cook 20-MAY-90 23:32

To change the subject just a little...

Dave, thanks for the good news about Ed and Ha Ning. What you say about

her English intrigues. Please pass this on to Ed if you have not told him

much the same before. Between the three of you there is one helluva book!

Yeah I know YOU don't write books! Well someone I hope has captured your

acsii transmissions and Ed has hopefully saved his or you have. don't you

see, Ed writes most of it. But some chapters are written by YOU.......or

for you by Ed and Ha Ning using your words and interviews. And some

chapters are ha Ning's. Growing up in Dalien. Courtship of Xiao Ed. Out

witting the bureaucracy, computer entrepeneurs in Chengdu, etc after exciting etc. Since William Hinton wrote his classic Fanshen...there hasn't been quite as interesting a tale of Foreigners in the Middle Kingdom...and at what a critical time! Seriously, it should be something that ed is thinking about and

could be quite a wonderful project for Ha Ning when she gets back to

Colorado.

(Gorden) Hell, send them to Jane Heim Dave. She has written one HELLUVA good book proposal and could teach them to do the same. Getting published is damn hard but this tory should be publishable.

And heck yes I eagerly await the first online instalment of Ha Ning's

memoirs! -------- And on another subject, please tell Alex that I hope

he's at ENA in San Francisco and I hope to meet him there. I'll be

downtown by 5pm May 22nd.

- - - - -

79:59) Dave Hughes 21-MAY-90 12:34

Poor Alex reports that the official delegations to the Summit

Meetings in Washington from Moscow has tied up all the Aeorflot

flights during the time he wanted to come, so he isn't going to

make it. At least that is my understanding at this point.

- - - - -

79:60) Sue Anderson 03-JUN-90 23:35

An 8th grade social studies teacher on our network seems to agree with

Gordon in response 79:58. She writes:

The thought of Ha Ning writing is great!! Kids I teach would LOVE

more of the "day-in-the-life-of" stuff. They are SO culture-bound they have

a tough time imagining life w/o HBO, sneakers, all freedoms, etc. There's

a wide-open market for that sort of personal experience writing.

It would seem that the social science magazines would be a good

market for her.

PLEEZE - encourage Ha Ning to write! Ed's letters have been such a

treat this past year! I've looked forward to them! One night I tried to

re-read all of them in one sitting! He's written quite a book!! Good luck

on future publication!!

- - - - -

79:61) Gordon Cook 06-JUN-90 23:06

Well dave what DO Ed and Ha Ning say about their....and YOUR book?

- - - - -

79:62) Dave Hughes 07-JUN-90 23:24

Won't know until the next hook-up, planned for Monday. But it wil

be a tough technical effort, through Chinese operators at the other

end.

- - - - -

79:63) Gordon Cook 09-JUN-90 22:39

My ears <and cursor> are cocked!

- - - - -

79:64) Dave Hughes 09-JUN-90 23:55

When it rains, it pours. No sooner does my daughter Becky start

her rounds for her new job in Seattle, but the company approached her

as to whether *both* Ed and Haning would like a well paying set

of jobs in China. They like his comptuer expertise, and her English

Chinese language facility!

Then a letter arrives here from yet *another* Chinese University asking

if Ed will take a position teaching English and COmputers for them!

- - - - -

79:65) Matt Minahan 10-JUN-90 0:31

There's a neat discussion underway this evening on the Mutual Broadcasting

System between Jim Bohannon and author Bill Holmes, who has just come back

from teaching English in China for a year. He's peddling, and pretty darn

successfully, his new book called "Coming Home Crazy" or something

similar. Good stuff, if you still have time to catch the radio program,

and the author sounds pretty good, if you can catch his book.

Matt

- - - - -

79:66) Gordon Cook 10-JUN-90 18:06

WOW!

- - - - -

79:67) Dave Hughes 12-JUN-90 21:36

No online news from China this week. Ed is having a hard time

arranging a direct-dial line which I can call and we can connect

up on. The office of one he was beginning to use was closed, so

he can't fall back on it. And when we try to connect through

switchboard lines the signal is too attenuated to work so far

after trying 3.

He is getting a little weary of the endless bureaucracy attendant

to his every request. Now that he is in a big university in a

city (Chengdu) which had large protests last year, every official

is even more cautious about doing anything 'unusual' like

hooking up his computer to a phone. I get the impression that the

whole country is more uptight about telecommunications in general.

This morning we tried a connection in the business office of a

newer hotel in town, with more modern telephone equipment. But it

still went through an operator and thus we could not get carrier

connection at 1200 baud after I talked with him by voice.

But I *did* get a treat. I got to talk to his new wife Ha Ning

by voice for the first time! A sweet clear voice with even

better English pronounciation than I expected.

Ed continues to work at the Sun Workstation - which as it turns

out was a grant from the World Bank. But they really are having

a hard time figuring out what to do with it, and won't send

for software out of country. They would like to hook it up via

Ethernet to a bunch of PCs, two of which have something called

a 'Link Card' and run '3+' software which theoretically can

be used for thin wire Ethernet.

Anybody familiar with that?

He will try again in two weeks. Meanwhile he and Ha Ning have

been offered positions in China working for a large US company,

and he has been asked by a college in Nanjing if he would work

for them.

So he has some thinking to do.

- - - - -

79:68) Frank Burns, MDG 17-JUN-90 3:51

(( a transcript of this item would be a hell of a resume.))

- - - - -

79:69) Dave Hughes 07-JUL-90 22:48

Lot of fun talking to no less than 6 Chinese telphone

operators - none of whom spoke English - to try and reach

Ed and Ha Ning voice tonight. Calls we had attempted at

the appointed times - from 9 to 11PM China time were met

with no answers inside China. So I picked Sunday morning

at 8:30 AM China time, got answers, and a whole series

of exited female Chinese operators who finally punched

the right buttons when I kept repeating "Edward and

Ha Ning Hughes...Edward and....." Finally somebody got

the idea and went to their room and while Ed had to

get dressed, Ha Ning answered...

We still can't connect ala modem between the extension phones

at Sichuan University, Chengdu, China and Colorado. Ed got a

connect at his end with his Touchbase Modem, but my internal

Toshiba modem just couldn't grab it. So it was voice only.

But it was very, very nice to talk, and for my wife Patsy to

talk, quite a while with Ha Ning, Ed's new wife. She is a

delight, and absolutely no problem through the distorting

and hissing overseas voice phone connection, understanding

her English. She is beginning to learn Wordperfect on his

Toshiba, so I urged her to write a little piece about growing

up as a little girl in China, and send it on floppy disk even

if we can't xmodem it. She giggled at the thought of it. But

I think she will.

So Xiao Ed is spending his days on the Sun Workstation trying

to accomplish some of the ill-defined things they would like

him to do. They are not only poor 'computer plan administrators'

even though they have some pretty fancy equipment, they can't

even make cables, he avers. But he hacked around to the point

he gets a login prompt on the Sun from his Toshiba 1000, direct

cabled with jury rig connectors. So would like me to send

a shell program in ASCII which he could transfer to the Sun,

compile it as a binary transfer utility which would work with

Procomm. And he has got the modem on the Sun working. So

make an unprecedented uucp call out to Colorado from that system

before his contract period is over on October 8th.

He and Ha Ning have to fly to Guangzhou to process her immigration

papers later this month, so she can come with him in late

October, after they visit her home in Dalian enroute to the

United States. So there was no 'journal' this time. Voice on

telephone is great for some things, like getting to know your

new daughter-in-law, but absolutely the pits for storytelling

from China.

THE HAPPY ENDING

Well, after all the angst after Ed (and Haning) were fired by the Dalian Foreign Trade School, for ‘cultural pollution’ and a race against time during which Ed could find another position to buy time while Ha Nings Visa to the US comes through, and then somehow be able to leave together:

Ed got a position at Sichuan University, in Chengdu – to work on their new Sun Workstations. I was able to do a tour de force by sending him the ASCII source code to Xmodem, which he was able to compile on his Toshiba and in the Sun workstation, afterwhich he was able to transfer binary files to/from the Sun. For the Chinese engineers, WAY advanced.
Haning was able to join him – so they honeymooned in Chengdu
Her Visa and all the other permissions came through.
The school gave him the price of the plane ticket from Hong Kong to America, as they were supposed to when they terminated him.
I located in Hong Kong an American from Colorado (Russ Arenman) who was editing a Hong Kong Electronic News, who certified to the China-Hong Kong border guards that indeed, they had tickets out of Hong Kong to the US, so they could both enter Hong Kong for 24 hours. He gave them an overnight crash pad.
Ed and Ha Ning flew to our home in Colorado Springs.

Ed’s adventurous trip to China was over.