Item 185    27-MAY-89    15:31    Dave Hughes


Ok, I am starting this a s a NEW Item (continuation from Item 19 because at last we can hear *directly* from China, not through my summaries. My son Ed, in China now, and I have finally overcome the technical problems and are telecomming directly!



  179 Discussion responses


185:1) Dave Hughes                          27-MAY-89  15:33 


My son Ed Hughes in Dalian, China took a Toshiba 1000, Procomm, and a Touchbase 1200 Worldport modem (which also can accept acoustic cups) He had tried calling Chariot in Colorado and Twics in Tokyo but the acoustic cups couldn't get carrier. 


Then he had a problem where his ancient Chinese voice phone in his room quit pulse dialing. And of course there is no RJ11 jack on any of their phones. I told him if he could hook the center two of four wires inside the RJ11 female jack port on his Worldport to the phone wires with alligator clips he could pulse dial the phone with ATDP. (I learned that trick in Paris when I couldn’t get a jack) He asked me to send an RJ11 male connector with wires because he couldn't get a grip on the red/green wires inside the tiny tiny worldport (bout 2 inches).


And as he points out there are FEW tech tools in that part of China. So its hacker tools all the way. 

Before it got there by the slow mail, he managed to carefully pull the two brass center wires out from the RJ11 itself, get a grip, hook them to the phone wires. (The phone is so primitive it has a box with hand wrapped coils between the wall and the instrument.) It worked! So he could voice call again. 


So then we discussed trying to do a direct computer-to-computerconnection where I would call him from MY desktop, and he, sitting there would set up his computer and modem hooked to hisroom phone and type ATA without hitting C/R and wait for my call.


I told him as soon as he heard the phone ring, hit the C/R and his modem would (1)take the phone off the hook and (2)generate the answer modem tone. 


(Then I would hear in my telephone instument whose line runs into the computer modem port and out again to the wall I would hear it, and press Enter on MY computer, whose Procom was set to ATD, and we should get a connection!)

We just did that, first at 1200 baud 8N1 and we got a connect, but the garbage noise was too high and we dropped back to 300 and tried again. 


SUCCESS! The session-capture below is the FIRST data conversation we have had. Of course when you do a direct computer to computer call like  that, there is no full duplex echo, so unless one sets Procomm to half duplex one does NOT see one's own typing. I was so concentrated on communicating with him I didn't think to change to half-duplex, so the capture is only of his incoming real-time typing. 


So here is 'Xiao' Ed Hughes' first successful micro-modem telecom from China through international circuits, ancient Chines pulse dialed phones, hand wrapped coils, hacked out connections, from a laptop computer, at 3:30 AM Sunday from his room in Dalian, China – where the students are still on strike. It was 12:30 PM Saturday here in Old Colorado City. I was using my lap top with internal modem. 


Ed's Half of the complete session



hello I have a connect please type ed 

I am here I receive you perfectly clear with no garbage over 

I will call now if you want

what is the number my id and password. over 

want me to try a short upload of text or not? over 


not now. to chariot it will take about ten minutes then I will call chariot

and leave two message one is typed and upload over 


ok. I hate to talk money but I will let you know the cost. 

I used my American express for $100 (to let you know)   and it is easy to get money here

(also if you want anything just tel me and you get an amex bill

that is all for me so say goodbye and I will try chariot over 

yes perfectly it is 3:30 am on sunday over

sample what and how 

[I tried an upload, but mistakenly grabbed an unscrubbed (not pure


ascii) Wordstar File) 

  stop stop stop stop

much garbage about 15 to 20 % garbage

I can understand the message but the last letter or two is usually bad

 a nd other garbage over 

I agree with alt-f1 and will call chariot now

  and you can call me in a  few days

let me get re-familair with procomm and then we can further experiment...



185:2) Dave Hughes                          27-MAY-89  15:34

From ed Sat May 27 12:46 MDT 1989


Hello from china!

this is my first offical message

everything is well for me here

my health is good and most people are quite friendly

just many are very curious about a tall blond hair blue eyed

wie-gou (forgiener).


I am far from beijin and it hard to get news except for the BBC and VOA

however I heard that Li Peng has gained power and that has made thte

people heard in low spirts, I hope things will be succesfull for

democracy here.  This country needs it badly.  This is the epitamy

of not what you know but who you know

that is all for now


tech notes: there is about a 1 to 2 second delay on character echo

which is expected and I think we should try and fix a time that you can


me every week and I leave my computer on and in answer mode and you can

upload any notes I have for the week

other wise call me between 10 pm and 12 midnight if you want to voice talk

to me.  It will take a few days but I will be ready with an upload

and to be familiar with PROCOMM again

end of message

by from china! 


185:3) Dave Hughes                          27-MAY-89  15:36

Ok, folks. Who needs fax or telex. We got Ascii! Any questions?

(we need to make it so I can call him, because his cals are

over $200 an hour outgoing. I can get in for like $50 an hour.

So we will either host mode the Procomm or use some minibbs.) 

Any questions for 'Xiao' Ed? 


185:4) Gordon Cook                          28-MAY-89  16:34

Well maybe you want to let him know that today's NY Times carried an article about the Netnews/Usenet conversations on China in the last 2 weeks and explained how when Chinese students in Berkely heard that students in Tienamin Square needed garbage removed they bought 1800 king

size plastic garbage bags and put one of heir number on a flight o Beijing to deliver them!!!!! 

185:5) Dave Hughes                          28-MAY-89  19:15


185:6) Sanyakhu Amare                       29-MAY-89  9:18

Damn Dave...real exciting stuff!! 

185:7) Lisa Carlson                         30-MAY-89  11:05

wowie zowie! this is what networking is all about! 

185:8) Bill Robinson                        30-MAY-89  21:50 

Really terrific!!! 

185:9) Frank Burns                          03-JUN-89  9:36

Yes, great.  And i'm wondering if you're trying more experiments this weekend. 

185:10) Dave Hughes                          03-JUN-89  15:01

         Once  the shooting started in Beijing I called son Ed  in Dalian  (2:30  am  there)  to be sure he knew  the  cheese  would probably get binding everywhere in China now.  He knew from radio reports of the first attacks by riot police,  but not of the army assaults with weapons.

         He repeated that things had not changed in the last  week in Dalian. Students still marched, and posters were up, but at no different  level  of intensity.

         He  went  the  4 miles downtown by bus to  Stalin  Square Sunday, risked taking some pictures of 'several hundred' students protesting  in the square.  They were handing out leaflets  which the populace eagerly were grabbing up.  He was the only foreigner visible in the square.  A plain  clothesman who spoke only Chinese approached him,  flashed ID, and escorted him over to a uniformed policeman  who  spoke  English.  The  uniformed  policeman  asked whether he spoke English, he said yes, so the policeman asked him to leave the square. So he did.

         On  the more pleasant side,  he made a two day trip  with adult  students  and faculty to a place  north  called  Zhuanghe, where  he saw 'beautiful oriental rugs' being made in a  factory. (his  mother wants an oriental rug).  Then they walked through an ancient  Chinese park which they thought would take an  hour  but took 5,  starting with a climb up stone stairs of over 700 steps.

He said it was a 'typical low cloud Chinese day.'

 He finally received two airmail packages from us.  One an excellent  book 'China,  Inc' I sent him about how to do business in  China.  He  thinks it very accurate about how  to  deal  withChinese.

         He has been asked to meet and speak with senior officials in  the Dalian 'Bank of China.' Word has gotton around that he is technically  competant.  He will try to dial into our  system  in Colorado  from  the  bank,   as  a  demo.   So  now,   besides  a petrochemical   company  and  a  computer  company,   a  bank  is interested  in  him and his technological skills.  Which  he  can demonstrate from a Toshiba 1000 lap top and an American Touchbase modem.  If  the  whole country does not go into  a  new  cultural revolutionary   anti-foreign   phase,   our   Old  Colorado   City Communications   efforts  to start  doing  computer/modem/telecombusiness in China through the ancient seaport may yet  work.  And with  the  new 9600 baud packet radio sets our maker is about  to deliver, we just might have a hell of a market!

         We  also  set up,  orally,  an automatic  upload/download direct micro to micro session for next Tuesday morning.  At which time  he will have written (and arced) report on the  local  fall out  from the latest in Beijing.  And we will upload requirements for export. Just as if everything is normal. 

185:11) Gordon Cook                          03-JUN-89  17:57


185:12) Frank Burns                          03-JUN-89  18:01

Wow.  Thanks for the continuing reports Dave.  I'm troubled by the shooting -- but certainly pleased you're still in good contact and that Ed is doing fine through all this. 

And double wow -- did you really say 9600 baud packet radio?  Now that's a breakthrough. 

185:13) Dave Hughes                          03-JUN-89  19:22

Yes, 9600 baud. The key is the radio, not the packet. So both our custom-supplier and TAPR, the ham supplier are shipping this month combined radio+packet for the $500 range. 

185:14) Dave Hughes                          03-JUN-89  19:37

Yes, Ed told his mother not to worry, he is 'safe'.

What will be intersting to find out from him is what will happen to the Dalian students who 'struck.' For in order to justify the hard-liners approach they went on national tv and claimed they were being attacked by a 'counter-revolutionary' movement.

Which of course are code words for treasonous citizens.   But what makes *this* protest-reaction different from the Cultural Revolution of over a decade ago, is the incredible amount of multi-level/channel communications coming out of there transmitting the attack on the protesters in all its violence. Such things as the CBS evening news broadcasting he voice and gunfire sounds in the square live right up until the reporting team was attacked, equipment ripped out of their hands, yells and grunts (and ironically even the digital sounds of a phone being dialed), and then being taken into custody violently, the still photos (transmitted by some kind of color fax?) all have sent the horror across the globe as nothing else could.

   All of which backfire on the hard-liners via other governmentsunder pressure from their own aroused public that will change the course of history.

   And I think, given the non-violent and controlled behavior of the students all these weeks, the sympathy will all go to them.    Can hard-line leadership with an aroused Chinese population

long last? 

185:15) Frank Burns                          03-JUN-89  19:39

So are we (MDG) in the que for this?  What do we need to do on our end? 

185:16) Frank Burns                          03-JUN-89  19:42

My guess, dave, is no.  Violence done to non-violent people is not something most people of the world can stomach in this age of communication. 

185:17) Dave Hughes                          03-JUN-89  19:49

It appears that the abortive attempt to clear the square yesterday with riot police backup up by unarmed (directly) soldiers, was so botched when the public contfronted them in the side streets,sending the soldiers, humiliated back out from the center, that the enraged ultra-hard liners got the go ahead to use all force.  But there may even have been disobeyed orders and dis-honor

among the hard asses. There is a report there were negotiations and an agreement by student leadership to leave the square  but the army attacked one hour before the deadline. (they are on daylight savings time too. Some commander have his watch set wrong?)

I'll bet this will trigger an even greater internal leadership power struggle-debate. 

185:18) Bill Robinson                        03-JUN-89  20:39 

Book it.  Those students have laid it on the line, gotten international recognition in the media.  No way will it stop here, I think. 

185:19) Dave Hughes                          04-JUN-89  10:58

Frank, you say you are deeply troubled by the shooting. My angergoes so deep that if I had the opportunity I would dispatch Peng and Deng right off this planet by my own hand, and never think twice about it. Evil is evil.

   ABC reports that the Red Cross in Beijing estimates over 2,000 were killed.

   The video films which had to be flown to Hong Kong before being satellite transmited to the US clearly show that the students were willing to confront the armored, buttoned down vehicles directly and closely, leaping on top and beating them with sticks. Not a few, but whole crowds.

   And one reporter says it was not only students, but that  as fire was being directed at one group, the people in it - working people were chanting 'strike, strike' - the labor organizations protest. 

185:20) Bill Robinson                        04-JUN-89  13:13 

These reports that soldiers were going into hospitals and demanding that doctors stop treatment of injured demonstrators -- does anyone have first-hand witness to that?!? 

185:21) Matt Minahan                         04-JUN-89  22:24 

There were also some second hand reports that the soldiers had just heaped the bodies of dead and wounded together, on a pile with broken bicycles and debris, and torched it all . . . Gawd, how can we do this to ourselves? 

185:22) Taylor Walsh                         04-JUN-89  23:59

Grisely reports from CBS just now, plus a photo of a soldier apparently lynched and burned by the students.   

Reports also said some doctors were killed in the hospitals attempting to treat patients (this from ABC).  Also that the government in trying to downplay the numbers has tried to collect bodies and burn them. 

Tonite (morning in China) CBS says the Army has civilians "pinned down". 

I am reminded of the film "Unbearable Lightness of Being" which appeared last year and which succeeded in intermingling the fiction with footage from the Soviet crush of the uprising in Prague in 67 (around which the novel and film are played).  I am reminded of those scenes by those of this weekend in Beijing.  Terribly similar: heady demonstrations for democracy that seem to take root in the populace. 

Then the tanks. 

I only hope more reasonable hearts and minds are in the leadership and that they can act. 

185:23) Gordon Cook                          05-JUN-89  9:37

News repoprt on Today this morning at 8:30 am that the US embassy has sent 10 minibuses to main university to retrieve American students studying there, that some soldiers have fired on other soldiers, and that a column of soldiers in  200 military vehicles left their vehicles and set them afire. 

Reports last night that showed soldiers seated at curbside looking absolutely miserable with crowds glowering at them from a few feet away, neither saying much to the other. 

Resemblance to Prague is only skin deep.  this is too big and also not the troops of one country against the people of another. 

Heard last night that these troops are from the distant provinces and had been told to expect something other than what they saw.   The lid may blow next in shanghai. 

185:24) Dave Hughes                          05-JUN-89  11:16

There also may be clashes between two parts of the Army whose leaders are loyal to either thehard-liners or the reformers. Parts of the Army have undoubtedly been horrified at the brutality shown by the parts who were brought in from afar and told that they would be fighting an armed insurrection.

And Bush's announcement that we will stop military sales will convince others that the modernization of the Chinese military has been jeopardized, playing further on the strains *within* the military leadership.

    Remember that the Chinese army itself had suffered deep cutbacks, so much so that soldiers went without pay, during the economic 'reforms' of Deng.

    So politics internal to the military leadership may become a much larger factor now.

     I simply can't see Peng and Deng staying on top much longer.  With nation after nation taking some action against the regime. Wanna bet the private diplomatic messages are all saying "We won't cooperate as long as those who did this bloody deed are in power?" 

185:25) Gordon Cook                          05-JUN-89  14:51

I hope you are right dave.  Bush said we would stop military sales??? Good! 

Looking forward to your micro to micro connect with Ed tomorrow! 

185:26) Matt Minahan                         05-JUN-89  16:31 

I just learned that the World Bank has called its China staff home . . . 

185:27) Dave Hughes                          05-JUN-89  18:15

         A  CNN  in-country  reporter quotes  an  unnamed  Chinese official  (whom  he said had no reason to fabricate  the  story), that  doctors treating wounded soldiers found them so hyper  that they  checked  blood  and  urine samples  and  found  drugs.  The soldiers said they had been injected before the clash by  doctors who  told  them they were to prevent disease from the  unsanitaryconditions in the square.

         Which the CNN reporter says could account for the extreme actions of the soldiers.

         Bizzare,  but plausible.  Especially since the regime was as  much  worried about the reliability of the soldiers  as  they were the loyalty of their officers. 

185:28) Gordon Cook                          05-JUN-89  18:20

Glad to see the pull back by the Bank. 

Astounding story dave.! 

I am tempted to try to find and join the china news group on usenet.  The rtraffic must be something! 

185:29) Bill Robinson                        05-JUN-89  19:19 

Incredible.  Why didn't anyone else pick up on that, for God's sake? 

185:30) Dave Hughes                          05-JUN-89  19:42

Things move very fast in the news world, Bill. It came from one CNN reporter (Chinoy), by phone to the live news at 4:30 here. Other networks wouldn't repeat it just because one reporter said it - not revealing his source. They are probably scramblingto confirm it for themselves.

   That military split is *very* obvious now, and might precipitate a civil war if the 27th Army (in the center of the city with its large armored force, which now looks as much as if they are 'protecting' the government from military coup, as keeping the people away) moves against the students in the university compounds.

   For other elements (38th Army I think) have moved in close enough to place themselves between the 27th and the compounds. 

185:31) Dave Hughes                          05-JUN-89  19:47

  The soc.culture.china newsgroup is pretty wild, Gordon. (I have it feeding into my system here). But with the 2-4 day 'cycle' time of comments, with distribution taking 2-3 days, the mixture of calm statements, frantic messages, old stuff juxtaposed with new stuff, its pretty psychedelic.

  Comments reflecting the beginning of the massacre entered into some systems are only now reaching the end distribution points. 

185:32) Dave Hughes                          05-JUN-89  19:50

The images of that lone man who stood his ground before a column of 18 tanks, which stopped cold, tried to turn right and he followed, tried to turn left and he followed, then just sat there while he stood there, then clambered atop it and started lecturing the crew before other civilians 'rescued' him is as classic an image as will ever be seen in this whole affair.

  On the Avenue of Heavenly Peace.... 

185:33) Dave Hughes                          05-JUN-89  21:21

Here, Gordon, are some of the more interesting comments from the last 300 messages in the china newsgroup -----MANY ARE FROM CHINESE STUDENTS STUDYING IN AMERICA AND ARE THE CHILDREN OF WELL HEELED CHINESE GOVERNMENT AND MILITARY PARENTS (I will get other direct computer to computer messages from Edward in a few days.) 

Article 18474 of 18511, Sun 18:27.

Subject: Where is the 38th Army?

From: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. (Lui Sieh)

(25 lines) More? [ynq]

The foreign barbarians got the 27th Army of President Yang Shangkun to do the dirty work.  According to a phone call this morning (8am EST) to a Professor from Bei Da, he said that the troops were from the West and that they were "veterans".  This sounds very suspicious like it is the personal army of Yang Shangkun. 

But, where was the Beijing Army Commander and the 38th Army?  Accordingto my sources, the two old marshals of Deng's rank had said they would attack anyone who would first shoot the students in Tiananmen Square.

My source was from one of the Generals of the 38th Army.  But, where arethey now?! 

The Beijing Army Commander and the 38th Army commander should be ashamedto allow such a bloody crime be committed right in front of their  faces!!! 

I agree with the netter who suggest that we call the Generals and tell them to not kill Chinese. 


Down with Li Peng!!!!!!!

Down with the CCP!!!!!!

Long live China and the brave Chinese people!!!

Long live Democracy!!!


Article 18483 of 18511, Sun 19:43.

Subject: Don't be Surprised about this Massacre: it Came a Long Way

Keywords: Vietnam, Lasha to Beijing

From: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. (Zhang Ju @ U of Rochester, CS Dept, Rochester, 

We didn't care about the brutality of PLA troops in Vietnam. Trainees in

Chengdu Army Official's School returning from Sino-Vietnam 1979 war told a lot of horrible stories about killing literally everyone. 

We didn't care much about the shooting at protesters in Tibet. Some still insist on that it's reasonable for PLA to kill in Lasha. 

This time, they are killing our sisters and brothers.   

So, don't be surprised by this. The bullets approached us rather slowly and we simply refused to pay any attention if didn't praise it. I appreciated their brutallity in Vietnam (God forbiden) and felt indifferent about killings in Lasha. It's us who tolerated the PLA getting used to charging fires at civilians. 

When you make your tiger thirsty for human blood, the next victim is you your self. The solution is unambiguous eliminate this tiger from the earth by any means.


  The oversea phone calls to Beijing have done great jobs for the past month.

    The oversea phone calls to Shanghai have contributed alot too the great transportion paralyzing in Shanghai. 

  The phone no.  of Jiao Tong Univ. at Shanghai is:

     310310 ask for Students Union (24 hour on duty.)

  The phone no. of Fudan Univ. at Shanghai is:

   operator 011-86-21-484906 ask for Student Union

                     -485903 ask for youth teacher. 

    I urge all of us call the you home University and home time as much as possile, Especially Cities that are NOT Beijing , Guangzhou,and shanghai. 

     Cities like Wuhan , Xian , Shangyang , Nanjing ,etc. got lots of students who are the pioneers of the fight.



(messages betweeb Ed and I continued in subsequent postings)